# After 12 Hours With The Droid Razr ...



## Rythmyc (Jul 23, 2011)

There's ZERO doubt I will be sending this back for a Galaxy Nexus. I will say this ... if the Nexus is ANYTHING close to this. I'll be extremely disappointed in the development of phones to this point. Sure, there are things that snap faster than a single core phone, yes, it's on Gingerbread which isn't optimized for dual core yet ... but come on now. Most everyone will say it's Blur, but the obvious stuttering and load lag of apps at times is more than noticeable and the screen doesn't compare to Samsung phones. I will say it's a much needed upgrade for Motorola and a step in the right direction, but it's still lackluster. The radios in the phone don't seem like the normal Motorola radios either. The signal isn't any better than the Thunderbolt or Charge in the areas where they struggle for me. Which I expected, considering Motorola radios have always been known to be the best radios in the industry hands down. Most people will say this belongs in the Motorola forums, but I wrote it here for the Nexus hopefuls that have any indication of MAYBE getting a Razr. I strongly urge you to not do it, and hold out. The re-stocking fee will be well worth it, to trade in for the Nexus ... I hope. If there are any specific tests anyone wants to me to do let me know, and i'll post results asap.


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## GatorsUF (Oct 14, 2011)

Ummm, Drop Test?

Waterproof test?

I kid I kid


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## JWellington (Aug 11, 2011)

Have you gotten a hand on the Rezound? That is the other grand device out there; would you say it is also lackluster?


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

JWellington said:


> Have you gotten a hand on the Rezound? That is the other grand device out there; would you say it is also lackluster?


Both the razr and the rezound are great devices, no question about that. The only thing wrong with them (besides the locked bootloader on both of them which is huge) is that they are not a Galaxy Nexus. Both are lackluster and less than impressive in comparison. This just goes to show you how great of a device the nexus is.

sent from your mom's bed


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## Rythmyc (Jul 23, 2011)

JWellington said:


> Have you gotten a hand on the Rezound? That is the other grand device out there; would you say it is also lackluster?


I haven't, and don't plan to. The next time I get a phone. It will be my Nexus. I've tortured myself enough. Haha.


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## andersonrt (Jun 11, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Both the razr and the rezound are great devices, no question about that. The only thing wrong with them (besides the locked bootloader on both of them which is huge) is that they are not a Galaxy Nexus. Both are lackluster and less than impressive in comparison. This just goes to show you how great of a device the nexus is.
> 
> sent from your mom's bed


How can you even make this claim. Have you even touched a nexus. I understand your review of the razr but to just say the nexus is the greatest is crazy. Until I have them all in hand I make no claims. I had a Samsung fascinate and it was ok but the file system was shit. If they keep rfs on the nexus, no thanks..


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

andersonrt said:


> How can you even make this claim. Have you even touched a nexus. I understand your review of the razr but to just say the nexus is the greatest is crazy. Until I have them all in hand I make no claims. I had a Samsung fascinate and it was ok but the file system was shit. If they keep rfs on the nexus, no thanks..


First of all, rfs is a proprietary filesystem that Samsung has already stopped using. Second, this is a nexus device. The nexus s uses mtd/yaffs2/ext4 filesystem/partition layout which rocks, and it is a Samsung phone. So this phone will have the best hardware (samsung's) with cutting edge software from Google. Also, an unlocked bootloader. Can either the rezound or the razr make that claim?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

kidserious said:


> First of all, rfs is a proprietary filesystem that Samsung has already stopped using. Second, this is a nexus device. The nexus s uses mtd/yaffs2/ext4 filesystem/partition layout which rocks, and it is a Samsung phone. So this phone will have the best hardware (samsung's) with cutting edge software from Google. Also, an unlocked bootloader. Can either the rezound or the razr make that claim?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk


Just a comment: Not everything is Samsung's hardware. Unfortunately, we're getting a TI processor and not a Samsung processor (this was the single most disappointing thing to me). Also, we're getting a 1.2GHz CPU instead of a 1.5-1.7GHz CPU. So we're also not getting "the best hardware". Lastly, we're still getting a first-generation LTE chip in this thing instead of the more-efficient second-gen chips. We're by no means getting screwed over. We're just getting the best but with a few downgrades.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> Just a comment: Not everything is Samsung's hardware. Unfortunately, we're getting a TI processor and not a Samsung processor (this was the single most disappointing thing to me). Also, we're getting a 1.2GHz CPU instead of a 1.5-1.7GHz CPU. So we're also not getting "the best hardware". Lastly, we're still getting a first-generation LTE chip in this thing instead of the more-efficient second-gen chips. We're by no means getting screwed over. We're just getting the best but with a few downgrades.


Take into consideration, the OMAP 4460 is a brand new chip. I may be mistaken, but I don't think it is in any other device to date. The razr is only running the 4430. The 4460 is considerably newer than the Exynos 4210 that is in the SGSII. The Exynos 4212 are are still in testing, no device has them. 4460 is also natively clocked at 1.5GHz. Maybe you are right about the LTE chip, I don't know. But I am actually excited about the processor because it is new tech. Just be glad they didn't use snapdragon, those are the least desirable of all chips. And not that it matters but in a benchmark posted by droid life, the gnex had higher numbers than the SGSII, although only by a little bit.

Meh


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## JWellington (Aug 11, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Take into consideration, the OMAP 4460 is a brand new chip. I may be mistaken, but I don't think it is in any other device to date. The razr is only running the 4430. The 4460 is considerably newer than the Exynos 4210 that is in the SGSII. The Exynos 4212 are are still in testing, no device has them. 4460 is also natively clocked at 1.5GHz. Maybe you are right about the LTE chip, I don't know. But I am actually excited about the processor because it is new tech. Just be glad they didn't use snapdragon, those are the least desirable of all chips. And not that it matters but in a benchmark posted by droid life, the gnex had higher numbers than the SGSII, although only by a little bit.
> 
> Meh


Yea that was in Antutu benchmark. I'm also going to be very stratified with this phone. A dual core combined with LTE speeds will make this device very long lasting =) primarily because this device is as open as they come .

Sent from my DROIDX


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Take into consideration, the OMAP 4460 is a brand new chip. I may be mistaken, but I don't think it is in any other device to date. The razr is only running the 4430. The 4460 is considerably newer than the Exynos 4210 that is in the SGSII. The Exynos 4212 are are still in testing, no device has them. 4460 is also natively clocked at 1.5GHz. Maybe you are right about the LTE chip, I don't know. But I am actually excited about the processor because it is new tech. Just be glad they didn't use snapdragon, those are the least desirable of all chips. And not that it matters but in a benchmark posted by droid life, the gnex had higher numbers than the SGSII, although only by a little bit.
> 
> Meh


LCD: Yup, we're getting the best we can. Wish it was HD Super AMOLED Plus (the non-pentile 720p version) but that's not possible now. So this is the best.

Glass: Unknown. Not Gorilla Glass but could be one of the other/better ones (Lotus? Dragontail?) - we simply do not know. Could be the best.

RAM: I wouldn't have complained with 1.5GB in there. But yeah, we're getting the "standard" good RAM.

CPU: The OMAP4460 may be a very new processor but it's really just a 4430, only clocked higher (even though we only get 40% of that improvement before overclocking). However, it's far from the "best available" processor. The Samsung chips tend to perform better than the OMAP chips. Additionally, the OMAP chips tend to not OC very well in my experience.

GPU: The GPU in there is NOT the best available, nor arguably best available. It uses the SGX540 which, according to Wikipedia, came out in November 2007. Here's are a couple non-conclusive benchmark results. The Exynos 4210 (with the Mali 400) performs better too, even if it is an older chip.

Battery: Who knows??? 

Storage: Well, given that we get no SD card option, I'd have to argue that we could have better.

---

In summary, we're by no means getting screwed over. It's just that the package we're getting is not a composite of all of the best hardware available. It might be very near it but it could be better with currently-available components. I would say that we should put the bar of expectations at best available minus 5%, and then we should mostly be happy.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> LCD: Yup, we're getting the best we can. Wish it was HD Super AMOLED Plus (the non-pentile 720p version) but that's not possible now. So this is the best.
> 
> Glass: Unknown. Not Gorilla Glass but could be one of the other/better ones (Lotus? Dragontail?) - we simply do not know. Could be the best.
> 
> ...


Ok, I hear you. Now take into consideration that this particular hardware has been optimized for ICS and consider hardware acceleration as well. I think this will fill in any gapps and cause the hardware to perform at a higher level than usual.

Meh


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## Rythmyc (Jul 23, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Ok, I hear you. Now take into consideration that this particular hardware has been optimized for ICS and consider hardware acceleration as well. I think this will fill in any gapps and cause the hardware to perform at a higher level than usual.
> 
> Meh


This, the fact we are getting some downgrades isn't really a concern of mine considering ICS was built around this set-up. This phone was built FOR ICS. I fully expect to get optimal performance out of the hardware in the phone. Regardless if it's 2007's or not.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Rythmyc said:


> This, the fact we are getting some downgrades isn't really a concern of mine considering ICS was built around this set-up. This phone was built FOR ICS. I fully expect to get optimal performance out of the hardware in the phone. Regardless if it's 2007's or not.


What I think people are not taking into consideration is the reason the hardware isn't eye-popping awesome is because it doesn't need to be. ICS is unbelievable and makes the hardware perform as if it were a much higher end device. This hardware was hand picked for this software. It's gonna be awesome.

meh


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

kidserious said:


> What I think people are not taking into consideration is the reason the hardware isn't eye-popping awesome is because it doesn't need to be. ICS is unbelievable and makes the hardware perform as if it were a much higher end device. This hardware was hand picked for this software. It's gonna be awesome.
> 
> meh


I'm not arguing that this isn't going to be a sweet system. I'm not arguing that this isn't going to run circles around any other device. I'm simply arguing that this isn't, in fact, the *best* hardware it could be. It could be better. Does it matter? Prolly not (except for the GPU - I think that it will matter more than anything else but most people still won't care or notice the difference).

Also, the hardware is NOT optimized for ICS. Rather, ICS is optimized for the hardware. But it could have been optimized for the better hardware too.

Again, I'm not complaining that this is a weak machine or anything. Just saying that it's factually untrue that it has the best hardware available. I expect the *best hardware available* phone won't be made because mfr's and carriers realize it's more profitable to mix it up (unfortunately). But this mix of hardware on the Nexus - I am very excited about!


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## fanboy1974 (Nov 13, 2011)

When the Nexus was announced I thought that it would be my phone. And then came the official Rezound announcement and that was my phone. I believe all 3 phones have their strength and weaknesses and not one is a tons better than the other. And once a tegra 3 phone comes out on Verizon LTE that "should" be the best phone. Android phones really do not stay on top for that long and I'm fine with that. I upgrade every year and to know that my next phone double's it in performance is better than getting a icrap 4s every 2 years.

So my personal rankings are based on me upgrading to a quad core next year.

1. HTC Rezound (Well rounded phone with a screen to die for, fast high quality camera and feels really good in hand. Battery could be bigger. Phone call quality could be better but it locks onto 4G better than Motorola phones.) 
2. Samsung Nexus (Stock next gen Android out the box. A developers phone. No SD slot, questionable camera and I won't have it long enough due to Tegra 3 coming out so a upgrade to the next OS is pointless for me.) 
3. Motorola Razr (Excellent build materials. No 720p display and the phone is too wide.)

Just remember that were on the same team. All three phones beat out the icrap, windows mobile and Rim. What ever you choose it's another tick in the Android column. We got to stay united.


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## mashwa74 (Nov 4, 2011)

I have used the razr for a day now and i can say for real that it is no different for the bionic, just a slight improvement on the screen. The batt discharges dramatically when you attempt to play video or engage in heavy 4G downloads... the phones also tends to heat up. As for the discussion about OMAP 4430 and 4460 the latter is eons ahead of the former in terms of graphics according to most tech websites and blogs. All said Razr falls short of expectations at this moment in time and i will surely return mine to trade for the Gnexus. I did get quad benchmark of 2530 with stock kernel no overclock


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

mashwa74 said:


> I have used the razr for a day now and i can say for real that it is no different for the bionic, just a slight improvement on the screen. The batt discharges dramatically when you attempt to play video or engage in heavy 4G downloads... the phones also tends to heat up. As for the discussion about OMAP 4430 and 4460 the latter is eons ahead of the former in terms of graphics according to most tech websites and blogs. All said Razr falls short of expectations at this moment in time and i will surely return mine to trade for the Gnexus. I did get quad benchmark of 2530 with stock kernel no overclock


That's what I was saying, the 4460 is a much newer and better chipset. I mean were talking last year's tech (4430) vs brand new tech (4460). This is probably not a fair comparison but look a how far things have progressed in the span of a year. Compare the nexus s to the galaxy nexus. To say that the 4460 is just an overclocked 4430 is completely incorrect. The bionic has the 4430 which is natively clocked at 1GHz. The razr simply has an overclocked 4430 chipset at 1.2GHz. The 4460 is a brand new chipset. It's probably the best chipset out right now with the exception of the tegra 3 of course (which is not implemented in any phone yet) and the Exynos 4212 which are still in testing and not available in any device. So my question is, if the 4460 wasn't the best choice for the gnex, what was?

Meh


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## Snow02 (Jun 14, 2011)

kidserious said:


> That's what I was saying, the 4460 is a much newer and better chipset. I mean were talking last year's tech (4430) vs brand new tech (4460). This is probably not a fair comparison but look a how far things have progressed in the span of a year. Compare the nexus s to the galaxy nexus. To say that the 4460 is just an overclocked 4430 is completely incorrect. The bionic has the 4430 which is natively clocked at 1GHz. The razr simply has an overclocked 4430 chipset at 1.2GHz. The 4460 is a brand new chipset. It's probably the best chipset out right now with the exception of the tegra 3 of course (which is not implemented in any phone yet) and the Exynos 4212 which are still in testing and not available in any device. So my question is, if the 4460 wasn't the best choice for the gnex, what was?
> 
> Meh


Nah. According to Ti:
Both the OMAP4430 and OMAP4460 processors are clocked at 1.2GHz in recently announced devices, the Droid RAZR and Samsung Galaxy Nexus respectively. Experiences are fairly consistent with both clock speeds, but the 1.5GHz gives an extra boost. The main upgrades to the OMAP4460 processor are an increased GPU performance and improved external memory access performance.

So the 4460 is pretty much just an overclocked 4430. The obvious differentiator being the overclocked gpu in the 4460.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Snow02 said:


> Nah. According to Ti:
> Both the OMAP4430 and OMAP4460 processors are clocked at 1.2GHz in recently announced devices, the Droid RAZR and Samsung Galaxy Nexus respectively. Experiences are fairly consistent with both clock speeds, but the 1.5GHz gives an extra boost. The main upgrades to the OMAP4460 processor are an increased GPU performance and improved external memory access performance.
> 
> So the 4460 is pretty much just an overclocked 4430. The obvious differentiator being the overclocked gpu in the 4460.


Well, when I looked up the 4460 it said it natively clocked at 1.5GHz. So now you're saying they are saying otherwise now?

meh


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## Snow02 (Jun 14, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Well, when I looked up the 4460 it said it natively clocked at 1.5GHz. So now you're saying they are saying otherwise now?
> 
> meh


No, I'm saying the 4460 is unquestionably the better performing part, but that the extra performance is primarily a product of clock speed increases, rather than major design changes. This runs counter to your statement "to say that the 4460 is just an overclocked 4430 is completely incorrect".

This is evidenced by their comment that an overclocked 4430 (in the razr) and an underclocked 4460 (in the nexus, both at 1.2 ghz) perform roughly the same.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Snow02 said:


> No, I'm saying the 4460 is unquestionably the better performing part, but that the extra performance is primarily a product of clock speed increases, rather than major design changes. This runs counter to your statement "to say that the 4460 is just an overclocked 4430 is completely incorrect".
> 
> This is evidenced by their comment that an overclocked 4430 (in the razr) and an underclocked 4460 (in the nexus, both at 1.2 ghz) perform roughly the same.


Well, instead of arguing, I will just say that I am very happy that the nexus has the 4460 as opposed to the 4430. I look forward to purchasing a second battery and clocking the 4460 back to native spec. (1.5GHz)

meh


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## gonzlobo (Oct 14, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> ....Also, the hardware is NOT optimized for ICS. Rather, ICS is optimized for the hardware. But it could have been optimized for the better hardware too.


So ICS is optimized for SMPs?


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## ERIFNOMI (Jun 30, 2011)

gonzlobo said:


> So ICS is optimized for SMPs?


ICS was built for this phone. It should run better on this phone than any other. You don't have to worry about the OEM getting their hardware to play along with the OS.


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## DXC (Aug 16, 2011)

i realize you guys are talking about hardware but just want to point out what might be the biggest gnex pull in my book, and that is the insane amount of devs we will have on it, huge amount of aftermarket modification and innovation, probably not a pull for the standard user, just taking about myself


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## DXC (Aug 16, 2011)

ERIFNOMI said:


> ICS was built for this phone. It should run better on this phone than any other. You don't have to worry about the OEM getting their hardware to play along with the OS.


i saw some people post that ics is not optimized for dual core. if that's true, might be tough to make the argument that it was built for this phone


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> LCD: Yup, we're getting the best we can. Wish it was HD Super AMOLED Plus (the non-pentile 720p version) but that's not possible now. So this is the best.
> 
> Glass: Unknown. Not Gorilla Glass but could be one of the other/better ones (Lotus? Dragontail?) - we simply do not know. Could be the best.
> 
> ...


Your review of the processor is mostly accurate, except that the 4430 is mated with an SGX540 that is running at 300 MHz, while ours gets the additional boost to the CPU (which you mentioned) plus the bump to the GPU (a 28% increase plus an OS built for it is nothing to sneer at). Also you have to remember that while a 4430 can theoretically clock up to 1.x, they're guaranteed to do 1-1.2. A 4460 can do 1.5 no sweat, wouldn't doubt it can go higher with some headroom I'm sure the dies have.

I take a slight issue with the OC observation. The OG Droid ran an OMAP 3 and it over clocked to crazy high speeds, mostly stable too (but tanked batt life, obviously) I have no experience with recent OMAPS, but I'm hoping the 4460 line, being cut from higher quality wafers, will yield good results. If nothing else, we can do 1.5 with NO PROBLEMS (other than a hit to battery life), which puts it on par at least with most processors. Rather unscientific benchmarks put the Optimus 3D (running OMAP) to best most other processors (except the Exynos if memory serves me correct)

The GPU however, is the same used in the SF and it flew. Sucks that RFS overshadowed that. Adryn and i have had an argument or two over which GPU is better (SF or TBolt) and I still contend the SGX540 is the better of the two (and at 300 MHz no less)

If you're looking at a purely performance standpoint, flash mem is faster than the crap SD cards that the OEMs package.

The battery, I've already confirmed is 1850 mAh. So while obviously OS and all components/use vary, it has the highest mAh capacity of any of the phones launching on VZW for the holidays.

Just my $.02


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## ERIFNOMI (Jun 30, 2011)

droidxchat said:


> i saw some people post that ics is not optimized for dual core. if that's true, might be tough to make the argument that it was built for this phone


I don't have an article to quote that says ICS brings dual-core support, but I think it does. What I do know it does bring, is hardware acceleration for the UI which makes it feel much faster to navigate.


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> I take a slight issue with the OC observation. The OG Droid ran an OMAP 3 and it over clocked to crazy high speeds, mostly stable too (but tanked batt life, obviously) I have no experience with recent OMAPS, but I'm hoping the 4460 line, being cut from higher quality wafers, will yield good results. If nothing else, we can do 1.5 with NO PROBLEMS (other than a hit to battery life), which puts it on par at least with most processors. Rather unscientific benchmarks put the Optimus 3D (running OMAP) to best most other processors (except the Exynos if memory serves me correct)


My observation is based on my experiences with the Droid X and with the Nook Color. Both of them had OMAP processors and neither one of them would overclock very well at all. I can't speak for anything else, just my experience there. I really hope these bad boys overclock like there's no tomorrow (like my 1GHz Snapdragon in my TBolt accepting a 92% OC and crazy UVs). I really do!


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## DroidVicious (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm amazed that every forum you go to that is a new release device there are continuous phone wars lol... I'm just excited we have a new genre of devices that us devs can get our hands on to make beautiful things happen! Each device is gonna have its perks and downsides, and that's what this industries about.. Every company is looking to make as much profit as possible with spending as little as possible to do it. Think of what it would be like if any one of the 3 manufacturers made the perfect device..... unlocked, best processor clocked the highest out of the box, best camera and lense, best screen, best battery life, best LTE chip so on so forth.. They won't because they know regardless we are going to spend what they want us to just for a taste of the next thing, and on top of that gives them the option to drop another device on us in the next month or 2 with just a slight upgrade... They could have taken the Thunderbolt and called it the Thunderbolt 2 and just put ICS on it with no changes and regardless if it sucked people would be buying it... Look at Moto you have the X2 the D3 the Bioinic, and now the Razr honestly just by looking at and playing with all 3 they are all the same lol and Moto is making a killing in profit.. Seriously just from playing with them nothing actually selerated one from another it was all the same Moto crap and Blur nonsense... Its what's gonna make us happy.. I've been an HTC user for a while now but am curious to go with a Samsung device, not to mention the Nexus devices whether it be HTC N1 or the S's the Nexus phones have a much longer life expectency then just a normal new device... So I figured why not.. We are all going to get what makes us happy and we are all going to be here for each other like we have been and we are all going to make amazing things happen!!! Nuff said! LoL


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## kbucksot (Oct 27, 2011)

Droid razr is a slim droid bionic. Blur is crap, etc etc. Any real android enthusiast will get the gnexus hands down.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

jkbucksot said:


> Droid razr is a slim droid bionic. Blur is crap, etc etc. Any real android enthusiast will get the gnexus hands down.


This. End of story

meh


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## Mustang302LX (Jun 28, 2011)

jkbucksot said:


> Droid razr is a slim droid bionic. Blur is crap, etc etc. Any real android enthusiast will get the gnexus hands down.


Agreed to a point. Blur has come a long way just has Sense. I'm just sick of the skins over Android when I prefer AOSP style. That being said VzW needs to hurry up an tell us when we can buy the phone!


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## eXorcist (Sep 30, 2011)

Well.. a few things i want to throw in here.. first ive seen many rzr benchmarks. Now as we know... benchmarks have no real world place in performance of phones.. its all about real world in your hands performance ...but u have yet to see a quadrant or linpak or smartbench besting my absolutely stock bionic from a rzr... not to mention ive had both in my hands at the same time.. and the bionic is much snappier. The lag and stuttering i saw and been hearing about is very real and very disPointing on the rzr..gnex is looking better and better ...but you guys keep saying oh its going to be unlocked.. this and that.. but i'd bet the farm big red will have it locked. Then what are all u guys guna say abt the great nexus? And i dont even know why u guys debate over all these dual core phone when quad cores are right around the corner.. and ALL of these dual core phones are just minutely different in performance... does gnex and rzr have better screens... yes. But the battery life is guna suffer..bassically. the bionic
..rzr..rezound...and gnex are all guna perform about the same.. i bet will all have locked bootloaders..and all will be obsolete by q1 or 2 2012. Its just all preference ...bionic has great developers and amazing build quality.. but lackluster screen. ( And a quick side note my service has been unbelievably better with the bionic than any previous samsung or htc phone I've owned.)...also albeit new... I don't see that many developers going to the rzr because the bionic was just release AND the iphone 4 s AND we got the gnex coming up very soon... so i I think it's just all personal preference not 1 device stands out as a leader to me... all have things that are good and things that are bad about them...just my 2 cents. And even though Im on a bionic and I won't be getting a nexus I hope that it has bootloader unlocked so people can stop complaining.









-ex
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

eXorcist said:


> Well.. a few things i want to throw in here.. first ive seen many rzr benchmarks. Now as we know... benchmarks have no real world place in performance of phones.. its all about real world in your hands performance ...but u have yet to see a quadrant or linpak or smartbench besting my absolutely stock bionic from a rzr... not to mention ive had both in my hands at the same time.. and the bionic is much snappier. The lag and stuttering i saw and been hearing about is very real and very disPointing on the rzr..gnex is looking better and better ...but you guys keep saying oh its going to be unlocked.. this and that.. but i'd bet the farm big red will have it locked. Then what are all u guys guna say abt the great nexus? And i dont even know why u guys debate over all these dual core phone when quad cores are right around the corner.. and ALL of these dual core phones are just minutely different in performance... does gnex and rzr have better screens... yes. But the battery life is guna suffer..bassically. the bionic
> ..rzr..rezound...and gnex are all guna perform about the same.. i bet will all have locked bootloaders..and all will be obsolete by q1 or 2 2012. Its just all preference ...bionic has great developers and amazing build quality.. but lackluster screen. ( And a quick side note my service has been unbelievably better with the bionic than any previous samsung or htc phone I've owned.)...also albeit new... I don't see that many developers going to the rzr because the bionic was just release AND the iphone 4 s AND we got the gnex coming up very soon... so i I think it's just all personal preference not 1 device stands out as a leader to me... all have things that are good and things that are bad about them...just my 2 cents. And even though Im on a bionic and I won't be getting a nexus I hope that it has bootloader unlocked so people can stop complaining.
> 
> -ex
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


Well, obviously you don't understand the nature of a nexus device. It will come with a locked bootloader but it is super easily unlocked with a fastboot oem unlock. That's right, I said easily unlocked unlike all of moto's crappy locked devices. The fact that you try to compare a moto device to the gnex just makes me laugh and furthermore you are giving a device credit that has a locked bootloader. If a device has a locked bootloader that can't be unlocked (all moto devices) then it does NOT matter what the specs are, it is a fail device.

Meh


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## eXorcist (Sep 30, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Well, obviously you don't understand the nature of a nexus device. It will come with a locked bootloader but it is super easily unlocked with a fastboot oem unlock. That's right, I said easily unlocked unlike all of moto's crappy locked devices. The fact that you try to compare a moto device to the gnex just makes me laugh and furthermore you are giving a device credit that has a locked bootloader. If a device has a locked bootloader that can't be unlocked (all moto devices) then it does NOT matter what the specs are, it is a fail device.
> 
> Meh


 Sounds like to me you had a bad experience and now your opinion is what its gonna b and I ( and probably everyone else reading this) don't really give a crap about your opinion... If you think a locked boot loader automatically disqualifies a device from being a good phone then you my friend are fail. Do you know developers and hackers and tweakers and themers only make up about 5 percent of everyone who buys phones? And u still don't know if it will be an s off or on phone. My guess is that the bionic and the rzr will both outsell the nexus. And in three months.. all the dual cores will be obsolete. So your argument is basically null and void because I c s will make its way to razor and bionic. And remember just because you have an opinion doesn't make anything change ....just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that anythings fail... it's only your opinion. And a not very well thought out 1 at that. Lol

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Sounds like to me you had a bad experience and now your opinion is what its gonna b and I ( and probably everyone else reading this) don't really give a crap about your opinion... If you think a locked boot loader automatically disqualifies a device from being a good phone then you my friend are fail. Do you know developers and hackers and tweakers and themers only make up about 5 percent of everyone who buys phones? And u still don't know if it will be an s off or on phone. My guess is that the bionic and the rzr will both outsell the nexus. And in three months.. all the dual cores will be obsolete. So your argument is basically null and void because I c s will make its way to razor and bionic. And remember just because you have an opinion doesn't make anything change ....just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that anythings fail... it's only your opinion. And a not very well thought out 1 at that. Lol
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


eXorcist: kidserious's point (although perhaps unclear) isn't about what phone performs better than the other when you buy it. If you ONLY care about how well it performs when you buy it, then your (eXorcist's) points are just as valid as anything else. However, that's not what it's about. It's about people who root, rom, and develop with their phones being able to have options. With the Razr, you simply do not have those options. With the GNex, those options are built-in. If you ignore the fact that this is "a Nexus" then, honestly, the two devices are very comparable.

Now to another point you made that I agree with. I too think the Rezound and Razr will outsell the GNex. Why? Three reasons:
1) Marketing.
2) If you only stick to stock software, the Rezound/Razr very well might be better devices.
3) Just like there are a lot of us that really like rooting and all, there are also a lot of people that really like Blur and Sense.

But make no mistake about it. This isn't about what phone is better day 1. This is about what phone is better day 30, day 90, day 365, and day 730 if you root, flash, and develop.


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## sfreemanoh (Jul 9, 2011)

kidserious said:


> Well, obviously you don't understand the nature of a nexus device. It will come with a locked bootloader but it is super easily unlocked with a fastboot oem unlock. That's right, I said easily unlocked unlike all of moto's crappy locked devices. The fact that you try to compare a moto device to the gnex just makes me laugh and furthermore you are giving a device credit that has a locked bootloader. If a device has a locked bootloader that can't be unlocked (all moto devices) then it does NOT matter what the specs are, it is a fail device. Meh


I can see your point...but you're kinda wrong. The Droid X still has a locked bootloader, but thanks to some awesome dev's, the device is anything but fail. We have probably a dozen different GB ROM's, overclock support, and thanks to 2nd-init we have Cyanogen and MIUI.

Also, and something you guys may not be thinking about...yes, ICS, right now, is custom fit to the Nexus, so to speak. The Nexus and ICS are being developed around each other. However, that's not going to be the case going forward. After the first ICS update, it'll stop being Nexus centric, and it will be, going forward, compliant device centric. So sure, ICS may perform amazingly on the Nexus initially, but stock ICS may not perform as well on it 6-9 months from now. Granted, most of us getting the Nexus (and I'm still leaning heavily towards it) won't be running stock ICS for long, so it won't be a huge issue.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> eXorcist: kidserious's point (although perhaps unclear) isn't about what phone performs better than the other when you buy it. If you ONLY care about how well it performs when you buy it, then your (eXorcist's) points are just as valid as anything else. However, that's not what it's about. It's about people who root, rom, and develop with their phones being able to have options. With the Razr, you simply do not have those options. With the GNex, those options are built-in. But make no mistake about it. This isn't about what phone is better day 1. This is about what phone is better day 30, day 90, day 365, and day 730 if you root, flash, and develop.


Exactly my point, well said. Thank you sir.

Meh


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

sfreemanoh said:


> I can see your point...but you're kinda wrong. The Droid X still has a locked bootloader, but thanks to some awesome dev's, the device is anything but fail. We have probably a dozen different GB ROM's, overclock support, and thanks to 2nd-init we have Cyanogen and MIUI.
> 
> Also, and something you guys may not be thinking about...yes, ICS, right now, is custom fit to the Nexus, so to speak. The Nexus and ICS are being developed around each other. However, that's not going to be the case going forward. After the first ICS update, it'll stop being Nexus centric, and it will be, going forward, compliant device centric. So sure, ICS may perform amazingly on the Nexus initially, but stock ICS may not perform as well on it 6-9 months from now. Granted, most of us getting the Nexus (and I'm still leaning heavily towards it) won't be running stock ICS for long, so it won't be a huge issue.


I hear you, but my point is this: the samsung fascinate has evolved to mtd development thanks to jt1134 and teamhacksung. This development has made the fascinate amazing when before this (pre mtd development) the fascinate was disappointing because of the crappy touchwiz ui. This mtd development came about because teamhacksung was able to modify the nexus s kernel to boot on SGS boards. Then jt1134 took that kernel and hacked the compatibility code to function with the fascinate hardware. What we have now is a phone that can almost hang with a dual-core phone. If the fascinate would have had a locked bootloader, the nexus s kernel would have never even been an option. So here is my point: what type of evolutionary development (like mtd for the fascinate) are motorola phones and other phones with unlockable bootloaders missing out on? They will never know and that my friends is a fail.

Meh


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

sfreemanoh said:


> I can see your point...but you're kinda wrong. The Droid X still has a locked bootloader, but thanks to some awesome dev's, the device is anything but fail. We have probably a dozen different GB ROM's, overclock support, and thanks to 2nd-init we have Cyanogen and MIUI.


These are only due to hacks. This isn't always a possibility nor are you guaranteed an active enough developer community to support said hacks. Given that the Nexus is about to drop on the same network as those devices, the developer community for those devices will be somewhat lacking. Also, the ability to run custom software on a device like the Droid X is still extremely limited. Tell me, with your Droid X, when was the last time you flashed a custom kernel? Or when was the last time you flashed a custom recovery? You haven't. My phone has a recovery on it with touchscreen support and I flash kernels just about as often as I flash ROMs (if not moreso).

And none of this even touches on the fact that ICS needs v3.0 kernels - something the Droid X can't flash onto it without Motorola creating it for you.


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## Snow02 (Jun 14, 2011)

sfreemanoh said:


> Also, and something you guys may not be thinking about...yes, ICS, right now, is custom fit to the Nexus, so to speak. The Nexus and ICS are being developed around each other. However, that's not going to be the case going forward. After the first ICS update, it'll stop being Nexus centric, and it will be, going forward, compliant device centric. So sure, ICS may perform amazingly on the Nexus initially, but stock ICS may not perform as well on it 6-9 months from now. Granted, most of us getting the Nexus (and I'm still leaning heavily towards it) won't be running stock ICS for long, so it won't be a huge issue.


Just stop. Compliant device centric? You're just making things up at this point.


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

I love this tweet by a developer friend of mine and a part of the OMFGB team. It proves my point exactly: http://twitter.com/#!/linuxmotion/status/136185842258554880


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> These are only due to hacks. This isn't always a possibility nor are you guaranteed an active enough developer community to support said hacks. Given that the Nexus is about to drop on the same network as those devices, the developer community for those devices will be somewhat lacking. Also, the ability to run custom software on a device like the Droid X is still extremely limited. Tell me, with your Droid X, when was the last time you flashed a custom kernel? Or when was the last time you flashed a custom recovery? You haven't. My phone has a recovery on it with touchscreen support and I flash kernels just about as often as I flash ROMs (if not moreso).
> 
> And none of this even touches on the fact that ICS needs v3.0 kernels - something the Droid X can't flash onto it without Motorola creating it for you.


Another great point. Awaiting moto fanboyish response........

Meh


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## eXorcist (Sep 30, 2011)

kidserious said:


> I love this tweet by a developer friend of mine and a part of the OMFGB team. It proves my point exactly: http://twitter.com/#!/linuxmotion/status/136185842258554880


This Is my point buddy if you need custom roms custom kernals and overclock to make your phone good.. it was fail to begin with sorry... you can do what u want with the bionic... you can flash roms and you can flash themes I'm sure very soon will be able to overclock.. you can make backups you can use bootstrapper you can use safe strap we have c m 7 booting...u can back up... and were gonna get I c s official... my point is this bionic, razor and rezound will all out sell the nexus and eventually nexus support will get low and then in 2 months when the first quad core htc comes out in blows away your overclock and hacked nexus away in the stock form i will laugh at all you people... with your phone that barely out performs my bionic even in over clocked form. Lol. Ok go right ahead and spend your 800 dollars for something that will be obsolete 2 months. Again I think my point was more so than any that you have had.. that the developer community (us and you guys ) make up very little of sales for these companies. And you still don't know if you'll be able to unlock the nexus verizon can easily stop you from doing this easy un lock like you talk about. You guys are looking at it as if the whole android community is out your window you gotta look at it from out verizon and phone developers and everyone else is window and guess what they don't care if the boot loader is locked what they just wanna really good cellphone from the start... with a lot of software and a lot of options right from the beginning which I believe bionic..rzr and rezound have and gnex wont.. so I think you're gonna see a lot more phones that are locked up a lot tighter because they sell better. 90 percent matter fact 95 percent of people don't even know what up bootloader is. So for you to call several good good phones fail because they have locked bootloaders is ignorant and self satisfying.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

eXorcist said:


> This Is my point buddy if you need custom roms custom kernals and overclock to make your phone good.. it was fail to begin with sorry... you can do what u want with the bionic... you can flash roms and you can flash themes I'm sure very soon will be able to overclock.. you can make backups you can use bootstrapper you can use safe strap we have c m 7 booting...u can back up... and were gonna get I c s official... my point is this bionic, razor and rezound will all out sell the nexus and eventually nexus support will get low and then in 2 months when the first quad core htc comes out in blows away your overclock and hacked nexus away in the stock form i will laugh at all you people... with your phone that barely out performs my bionic even in over clocked form. Lol. Ok go right ahead and spend your 800 dollars for something that will be obsolete 2 months. Again I think my point was more so than any that you have had.. that the developer community (us and you guys ) make up very little of sales for these companies. And you still don't know if you'll be able to unlock the nexus verizon can easily stop you from doing this easy un lock like you talk about. You guys are looking at it as if the whole android community is out your window you gotta look at it from out verizon and phone developers and everyone else is window and guess what they don't care if the boot loader is locked what they just wanna really good cellphone from the start... with a lot of software and a lot of options right from the beginning which I believe bionic..rzr and rezound have and gnex wont.. so I think you're gonna see a lot more phones that are locked up a lot tighter because they sell better. 90 percent matter fact 95 percent of people don't even know what up bootloader is. So for you to call several good good phones fail because they have locked bootloaders is ignorant and self satisfying.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


The words of a true moto fanboy.

Wow, after reading this I realize you actually have no idea what you are saying. You truly are deceived bud. I am definitely wasting my time if you truly believe what you just wrote. I guess you didn't catch the point I or jaxidan was trying to make. Have fun with blur and an inferior phone and your locked bootloader oh and definitely have fun with the idea that the bionic will ever be anywhere to as good as the nexus. Lolololololololol!

Edit: oh yea, you CANNOT do what you want with the bionic. You cannot flash custom kernels or a custom recovery. FYI, the kernel is what makes a device awesome. It's like the engine of a car. The only ICS moto will ever see is a blur laden, bloated version. Garbage. Thanks for the laughs man.

Meh


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

sfreemanoh said:


> Just stop. Compliant device centric? You're just making things up at this point.


I don't think he meant an official program or anything - I think he just meant: it'll be made generic to all(ish) phones and not just the one Nexus.


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

And also, while we perhaps disagree with others, let's please make sure we try to do so respectfully.


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## eXorcist (Sep 30, 2011)

kidserious said:


> The words of a true moto fanboy.
> 
> Wow, after reading this I realize you actually have no idea what you are saying. You truly are deceived bud. I am definitely wasting my time if you truly believe what you just wrote. I guess you didn't catch the point I or jaxidan was trying to make. Have fun with blur and an inferior phone and your locked bootloader oh and definitely have fun with the idea that the bionic will ever be anywhere to as good as the nexus. Lolololololololol!
> 
> ...


Ive owned this one moto phone. And u absolutely made very many good points. But ur just being a jerk off. To be honest. Lol and i love how you know so much about about a phone that hasnt even dropped yet rofl. Spoken like a true samsung fan boy. Bionic is a beast. Deal.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

eXorcist said:


> Ive owned this one moto phone. And u absolutely made very many good points. But ur just being a jerk off. To be honest. Lol and i love how you know so much about about a phone that hasnt even dropped yet rofl. Spoken like a true samsung fan boy. Bionic is a beast. Deal.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


I do prefer samsung simply because their hardware is the best and they are developer friendly. But, I'm actually an android fanboy, not a fan of the "software" moto puts on there devices (which I don't consider android).

Look, I don't mean to be a "jerk-off", but android is about open source, about development. It's about taking something good and having the freedom to improve and change and make it better. And it pisses me off royally when a company like motorola comes in a releases a device with software that pisses all over that characteristic and freedom. Motorola is anti-development, they want to put an end to the hacking scene. THAT'S WHAT ANDROID IS ABOUT!!! And I get frustrated when somebody actually says tha x moto device is great when it goes against the very essence of android. A nexus device is the very epitome of what android is about. Pure, stock, open android. Exactly what it was designed to be. It's nothing personal, but this is a developers forum and to come in here and say that a locked phone is as good, if not better, than a pure, stock cutting edge android experience, you're gonna get some blowback. Consider your surroundings my friend. No hard feelings.

Meh


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## DaFatMack (Jul 9, 2011)

HOPE PEOPLE DIDNT BUY THE RAZR THINKING THEY WERE GOING TO RETURN IT FOR THE G-NEXUS CAUSE ONCE AGAIN BIG RED VERIZON OUT SMARTED YOU JUST LIKE THEY DID THE BIONIC OWNERS, WORD ON THE STREETS IS THAT THE G-NEXUS RELEASE DATE HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK TO DECEMBER SO THAT MEANS YOUR 15 DAY RETURN POLICY IS USELESS...... BUT WE'LL SEE I COULD BE WRONG








,


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## Rythmyc (Jul 23, 2011)

mackentosh said:


> HOPE PEOPLE DIDNT BUY THE RAZR THINKING THEY WERE GOING TO RETURN IT FOR THE G-NEXUS CAUSE ONCE AGAIN BIG RED VERIZON OUT SMARTED YOU JUST LIKE THEY DID THE BIONIC OWNERS, WORD ON THE STREETS IS THAT THE G-NEXUS RELEASE DATE HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK TO DECEMBER SO THAT MEANS YOUR 15 DAY RETURN POLICY IS USELESS...... BUT WE'LL SEE I COULD BE WRONG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously you like the caps lock, however even if it's not out in 13 days, there is nothing keeping me from taking it back. It's not like i'm stuck either way.


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## Rythmyc (Jul 23, 2011)

eXorcist said:


> Ive owned this one moto phone. And u absolutely made very many good points. But ur just being a jerk off. To be honest. Lol and i love how you know so much about about a phone that hasnt even dropped yet rofl. Spoken like a true samsung fan boy. Bionic is a beast. Deal.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


Lol, you're obviously butthurt because you went for the Bionic and didn't wait. So now you have to justify your ignorance with incoherent jabber. Yes, dual core phones will be out soon, guess what. You're STILL stuck with your locked down Bionic. So we'll be enjoying a true Android experience, while you enjoy hacked and scripted junk. Not to mention the HUGE development crowd that will be supporting the Nexus.


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## DaFatMack (Jul 9, 2011)

Rythmyc said:


> Lol, you're obviously butthurt because you went for the Bionic and didn't wait. So now you have to justify your ignorance with incoherent jabber. Yes, dual core phones will be out soon, guess what. You're STILL stuck with your locked down Bionic. So we'll be enjoying a true Android experience, while you enjoy hacked and scripted junk.


Sorry about the caps lock once I get started there's no turning back Lol!


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## Rythmyc (Jul 23, 2011)

mackentosh said:


> Sorry about the caps lock once I get started there's no turning back Lol!


Lol, that's ok. My sources still point at Turkey day, so i'm going with them. Not some immature guy on Twitter without naming names.


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## MetalWych (Aug 23, 2011)

kidserious said:


> I do prefer samsung simply because their hardware is the best and they are developer friendly. But, I'm actually an android fanboy, not a fan of the "software" moto puts on there devices (which I don't consider android).
> 
> Look, I don't mean to be a "jerk-off", but android is about open source, about development. It's about taking something good and having the freedom to improve and change and make it better. And it pisses me off royally when a company like motorola comes in a releases a device with software that pisses all over that characteristic and freedom. Motorola is anti-development, they want to put an end to the hacking scene. THAT'S WHAT ANDROID IS ABOUT!!! And I get frustrated when somebody actually says tha x moto device is great when it goes against the very essence of android. A nexus device is the very epitome of what android is about. Pure, stock, open android. Exactly what it was designed to be. It's nothing personal, but this is a developers forum and to come in here and say that a locked phone is as good, if not better, than a pure, stock cutting edge android experience, you're gonna get some blowback. Consider your surroundings my friend. No hard feelings.
> 
> Meh


Well spoken! My last 3 devices have been Moto (OG Droid, DX, DX2...replacement for a crapped out DX), I really hate the software side of their business. No matter how good their hardware builds are, the fact that Moto locks their devices down so tight is very CrApple like. Plus, Moto can not put out an update that doesn't ruin it. Hell, my DX2 was totally unusable on stock Gingerbread. Major lag, f/c constantly, and constant reboots are just some of the issues. Thankfully Nitro can code. Eclipse kicks much tushy.

I look forward to getting my Gnex (maybe sometime before it becomes another Bionic...constant delays until its useless to purchase). A pure Google device (even more so than the OG Droid) is desirable. Updates will work (if I would ever run stock) and will arrive 6 months earlier (for Moto devices at least...and they are the fast ones, or years later for the others).

I won't knock anyone for liking their devices, whether they are high or not! Hell, how could I? I run Moto's red headed stepchild...and I actually don't mind my DX2 (with the right ROM and many scripts, of course).

Sorry if this makes very little sense. Its almost 3am and I have been awake for about 30 hours. Now...sleep!

Sent from my DX2 running powerboosted Eclipse 1.3 rc2 (and impatiently waiting for my GNex).


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## kidserious (Jul 2, 2011)

Rythmyc said:


> Lol, you're obviously butthurt because you went for the Bionic and didn't wait. So now you have to justify your ignorance with incoherent jabber. Yes, dual core phones will be out soon, guess what. You're STILL stuck with your locked down Bionic. So we'll be enjoying a true Android experience, while you enjoy hacked and scripted junk. Not to mention the HUGE development crowd that will be supporting the Nexus.


This. My point exactly. That is all

Meh


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## poontab (Jun 7, 2011)

Thread closed.

We're not going to have phone wars on RootzWiki & no one should care about anyone else's purchasing decisions.


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