# Gingerbread and bootloaders



## jt1359

I'm not trying to get anyones hopes up because I have heard nothing of this, I just want to ask for your thoughts. Do you think Motorola delayed our Gingerbread update so that they could include an unlockable bootloader? I mean it could just be that they're making it completely stable, but the Atrix was unlocked so I don't see why ours shouldn't be. Idk.


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## x13thangelx

I seriously doubt it. As for why? Because its not all up to the manufacturer, its also up to the carriers. Would be amazing if it happened but I doubt it will...


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## Aroth

x13thangelx said:


> I seriously doubt it. As for why? Because its not all up to the manufacturer, its also up to the carriers. Would be amazing if it happened but I doubt it will...


When VZW first make the announcement on the 15th Motorola pulled the plug because it "wasn't ready". No work even yet on what exactly that meant, but a week and a half later VZW put a hold on all future updates from Motorola until they fixed the issues with the recent update for the DX and DX2. At the time of your post both Motorola and VZW were both delaying updates on all phones to give the D3 center stage for its release. Don't expect to see ANY updates for any phones for the next 3 weeks or so. (two weeks after the Droid 3 hits retail stores).

I do know that the line about "where carriers allow" is a load of crock. All major carriers in the US have devices released in the last year with unlocked bootloaders. VZW even has a Motorola device with an unlockable bootloader that is less than a year old (the XOOM)


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## x13thangelx

Aroth said:


> I do know that the line about "where carriers allow" is a load of crock. All major carriers in the US have devices released in the last year with unlocked bootloaders. VZW even has a Motorola device with an unlockable bootloader that is less than a year old (the XOOM)


I wouldnt be so sure about that. The only truly unlocked phones are the Samsung ones off the top of my head. All others require flashing back to a previous build in order to unlock it. Wasnt the xoom the first tablet? Imo, the only reason it has a lockable/unlockable bootloader is because google put pressure on moto and moto didnt want to go with another carrier.


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## poontab

x13thangelx said:


> I wouldnt be so sure about that. The only truly unlocked phones are the Samsung ones off the top of my head. All others require flashing back to a previous build in order to unlock it. Wasnt the xoom the first tablet? Imo, the only reason it has a lockable/unlockable bootloader is because google put pressure on moto and moto didnt want to go with another carrier.


AFAIK nothing is unlocked stock even Nexus S although unlockable. Plenty of tabs before Xoom but none with HC before it. I think you're right about Google; don't they handle the bulk of Xoom software updates like they did G1?

*Still no word on GB for D2G? My buddy has been bugging me since I duped him with false hopes last month.


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## jt1359

x13thangelx said:


> I wouldnt be so sure about that. The only truly unlocked phones are the Samsung ones off the top of my head. All others require flashing back to a previous build in order to unlock it. Wasnt the xoom the first tablet? Imo, the only reason it has a lockable/unlockable bootloader is because google put pressure on moto and moto didnt want to go with another carrier.


But didn't Verizon say they were going to allow HTC to unlock the phones on their network? I don't know why carriers would disallow it, since I would think that the phone manufacturers would be the ones paying to replace bricks, not Verizon.


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## worldofross

and you believe either Moto or Verizon why ?


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## Xplorer4x4

jt1359 said:


> But didn't Verizon say they were going to allow HTC to unlock the phones on their network? I don't know why carriers would disallow it, since I would think that the phone manufacturers would be the ones paying to replace bricks, not Verizon.


 The phones do not go back to Moto when they get bricked. Atleast not directly.I returned my first D2G and it went to a VZW factory or something in Texas. I think VZW then fixes the phone and then uses it as refurb.


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## Fenuxx

The bootloader likely won't be unlocked. Verizon doesn't WANT unlocked phones, or phones that can be easily unlocked on their network. Too many people rooted and freely tethered their D1, which was the experiment. And we all know how Verizon is with charging for tethering.

As far as the refurbs, yes, Verizon handles those. That's why they're always screwed up in some way. They take a returned, defective phone, and turn it right back around and ship it off to a different customer if it isn't beat to shit and boots. Thus the large issue with their "Certified Like-New" devices. I know this one from experience.

--
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk


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## miga

Fenuxx said:


> The bootloader likely won't be unlocked. Verizon doesn't WANT unlocked phones, or phones that can be easily unlocked on their network. Too many people rooted and freely tethered their D1, which was the experiment. And we all know how Verizon is with charging for tethering.


But see, even with this locked bootloader, you can still very easily tether for free, so that really makes no difference.

I don't get it.


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## Fenuxx

Neither do I, but that's one of the more prominent excuses I've seen.

--
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk


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## MischiefsMommy

I'm sorry to sound like a TOTAL noob, but I am to a sertain extent. =) So from what I am reading, am I understanding correctly, the ONLY reason for a bootloader is so you can teather??


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## Gasai Yuno

In VZW's eyes, it might be true. As in, "it allows people to use our network for tethering and they don't pay us $25/mo for that".

Otherwise, unlocked boot loader means the ability to run any kernel you fancy. Locked boot loader binds the developers to the existing official (signed) kernels.


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## canpa12345

I think for the gingerbread update, its getting held back so only the droid bionic would have it, making it more appealing. But the droid 3 has it probably cause it was built around it or something. Same *might* go for the droid bionic about the bootloader.


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## worldofross

Ready to upgrade to Stock Gingerbread (Rooted) on your Droid2 Global.. See Sig..... Have Fun


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## Asphyx

I will remind everyone it really doesn't matter what Verizon allows or disallows provided Moto eventually releases an unlocker for SOME carrier!

Unless EVERY carrier blocks the unlock it will be easy to use it on a Verizon unit.
The lock isn't any different for Verizon than it is for Sprint or AT&T.

And I'm willing to bet that an unlock for a D2 will work just as well on a D2G.
Even if not out of the box it will at least show us how it can be done and it won't take long to port that method to our phone.


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## Gasai Yuno

Asphyx, well, isn't Atrix 4G's bootloader unlocked?


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## x13thangelx

Gasai Yuno said:


> Asphyx, well, isn't Atrix 4G's bootloader unlocked?


From a leaked test build pulled from Moto's servers iirc. It wasnt with the OTA.


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## Asphyx

x13thangelx said:


> From a leaked test build pulled from Moto's servers iirc. It wasnt with the OTA.


Yep and Atrix is really a very different beast from the Droid Series, 4G and It has the dual procs because it was intended to be docked to make it a computer as well.
Which is probably why they worked on unlocking that one at Moto at all!

If any Droid series phone gets an unlock to use we should be able to use it with a little but of tweaking.


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## kickyindahead

x13thangelx said:


> From a leaked test build pulled from Moto's servers iirc. It wasnt with the OTA.


excuse my ignorance and you probably know about this better than i do .. but in my opinion an unlocked bootloader no matter how it achieved is still an unlocked bootloader... am i not correct?


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## Gasai Yuno

You shouldn't really pay attention to contradicting statements by the developers.

Let me quote:



Asphyx said:


> I will remind everyone it really doesn't matter what Verizon allows or disallows provided Moto eventually releases an unlocker for SOME carrier!
> 
> Unless EVERY carrier blocks the unlock it will be easy to use it on a Verizon unit.
> The lock isn't any different for Verizon than it is for Sprint or AT&T.


Then I asked about Atrix 4G and immediately it became a "very different beast", and apparently a leaked unlock is different from OTA unlock, thus making it move out of the scope of the quote just above.


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## x13thangelx

Gasai Yuno said:


> Then I asked about Atrix 4G and immediately it became a "very different beast", and apparently a leaked unlock is different from OTA unlock, thus making it move out of the scope of the quote just above.


The difference between a leak unlock and an OTA unlock is that it wasnt meant to get unlocked. The only reason it was is because of the leak.... If it was an OTA unlock then it would have showed that Moto was going to follow through with what they have been claiming in unlocking the bootloaders....


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## Asphyx

kickyindahead said:


> excuse my ignorance and you probably know about this better than i do .. but in my opinion an unlocked bootloader no matter how it achieved is still an unlocked bootloader... am i not correct?


Yes but the Atrix unlocks by flashing an SBF file. That SBF file probably would not flash onto OUR unit. If it was a SBF for the D2 it just might though.

Basically what the Atrix got was an SBF that replaced the bootloader with one that doesn't require a signed zip. Hence it was unlocked.
It could be used as another source to reverse engineer a master key but thats about all it would be good for towards our unlocking.


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## Asphyx

Gasai Yuno said:


> You shouldn't really pay attention to contradicting statements by the developers.
> 
> Let me quote:
> 
> Then I asked about Atrix 4G and immediately it became a "very different beast", and apparently a leaked unlock is different from OTA unlock, thus making it move out of the scope of the quote just above.


Gasai I know English is 2nd language but you really need to go over what I said...

ATRIX is a DIFFERENT PHONE!
Totally! It's niot even a DROID in Moto's world.

What I was saying if Verizon blocked an unlock but Sprint got one then the one that works on sprint works on verizon!

SAME HARDWARE....Different CARRIER!

See the difference?
The lock is HARDWARE specific not CARRIER specific.
So if any carrier other than Verizon gets an unlock all VZW customers will have one to no matter what Verizon decides about unlocking.


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## slimpirudude

The atrix got unlocked bl when a bounty so to speak so let's do that with our d 2g bl!


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## bikedude880

"slimpirudude said:


> The atrix got unlocked bl when a bounty so to speak so let's do that with our d 2g bl!


Okay, we'll do it you way. $20,000 to whomever can either crack the AES-128(256?) key or successfully lobby Moto to provide an unlock. </sarcasm>

Seriously, anything else about bootloaders is pointless until the hardware developer has a say about it (and they've blown us off so far, more or less).

White DROID2 GLOBAL running CM7-GB using RootzWiki Forums


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## aceoyame

Honestly I dont even care about the locked bootloader anymore. 2nd init has done enough for me to be honest... As long as our kernel is playing nice with anything we run in 2nd init (Has been so far with GB kernel) Then I don't see a need.


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## kickyindahead

Asphyx said:


> Yes but the Atrix unlocks by flashing an SBF file. That SBF file probably would not flash onto OUR unit. If it was a SBF for the D2 it just might though.
> 
> Basically what the Atrix got was an SBF that replaced the bootloader with one that doesn't require a signed zip. Hence it was unlocked.
> It could be used as another source to reverse engineer a master key but thats about all it would be good for towards our unlocking.


Thats basically what i meant in my question... Angel posted about the OTA unlock vs leaked unlock... and my point was that an unlocked bootloader no matter how achieved is still an unlocked bootloader... whether it was meant to be unlocked or not. if im wrong and i most likely am.. the way you described the atrix achieving an unlocked bootloader is basically the same way that we achieved access to an unlocked bootloader on the thunderbolt.

I believe as Angel posted earlier that its doubtful that the d2g will ever see one. I believe that the only way we're going to get it is if some genius cracks the code or we get and SBF that replaces the bootloader like you described above... thats just my 2 cents and im certain im wrong ..but thats my beliefs on the subject. whether it makes sense or not.

edit: looking back at the posts .. i might have misquoted Angel on the doubtfulness of the d2g ever being unlocked... i could have sworn i seen it but i cant find it now .. its still my impression that we wont see it without any of the ways mentioned previously ..


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## slimpirudude

"bikedude880 said:


> Okay, we'll do it you way. $20,000 to whomever can either crack the AES-128(256?) key or successfully lobby Moto to provide an unlock. </sarcasm>
> 
> White DROID2 GLOBAL running CM7-GB using RootzWiki Forums


Haha.... so sorry master! Maybe you should come up with some ideas instead of being a comedian....


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## bikedude880

"slimpirudude said:


> Haha.... so sorry master! Maybe you should come up with some ideas instead of being a comedian....


Check out and-developers wiki, all info you could ever want on this family of hardware is there. 2nd-init is the best we're gonna do without vendor support, sorry.

White DROID2 GLOBAL running CM7-GB using RootzWiki Forums


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## Asphyx

bikedude880 said:


> Okay, we'll do it you way. $20,000 to whomever can either crack the AES-128(256?) key or successfully lobby Moto to provide an unlock. </sarcasm>
> 
> Seriously, anything else about bootloaders is pointless until the hardware developer has a say about it (and they've blown us off so far, more or less).
> 
> White DROID2 GLOBAL running CM7-GB using RootzWiki Forums


True, It has to come from Moto. Just pointing out that all that crap about Carriers blocking it is just meant to keep deniability for when nothing comes out. Just as no one wants to fess up as to who actually pulled back the GB OTA that verizon announced. Basically the mention made by Moto about carriers blocking it is so we can't pin the tail on the jacka$$!



aceoyame said:


> Honestly I dont even care about the locked bootloader anymore. 2nd init has done enough for me to be honest... As long as our kernel is playing nice with anything we run in 2nd init (Has been so far with GB kernel) Then I don't see a need.


Well 2nd Init is a nice workaround but I still think about the possibilities of radio tweaking and creating our own kernel. And look how much was broke that got fixed merely because you found the GB Leak. Chances are likely we will go through that all again for Ice Cream.
I want the Unlock, just don't expect to get it from Moto very willingly. All I do know is once the HTC Unlock was figured out those HTC bootloader locks started dropping like flies. Could be the same for us with a little luck and little inside info being leaked.



kickyindahead said:


> Thats basically what i meant in my question... Angel posted about the OTA unlock vs leaked unlock... and my point was that an unlocked bootloader no matter how achieved is still an unlocked bootloader... whether it was meant to be unlocked or not. if im wrong and i most likely am.. the way you described the atrix achieving an unlocked bootloader is basically the same way that we achieved access to an unlocked bootloader on the thunderbolt.
> 
> I believe as Angel posted earlier that its doubtful that the d2g will ever see one. I believe that the only way we're going to get it is if some genius cracks the code or we get and SBF that replaces the bootloader like you described above... thats just my 2 cents and im certain im wrong ..but thats my beliefs on the subject. whether it makes sense or not.
> 
> edit: looking back at the posts .. i might have misquoted Angel on the doubtfulness of the d2g ever being unlocked... i could have sworn i seen it but i cant find it now .. its still my impression that we wont see it without any of the ways mentioned previously ..


Cracking the code is REALLY difficult. Right now it's impossible there are only two releases we have keys from and thats definitly not enough. 
It's going to have to be something from Moto (Leak Official whatever) I was just pointing out that Verizon can complain all they want but Moto is the ONLY one who can really stop it from ever being unlocked which is what BikerDude was trying to get accross.


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## Gasai Yuno

bikedude880 said:


> Okay, we'll do it you way. $20,000 to whomever can either crack the AES-128(256?) key


Well you have to pay these guys then: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/08/new_attack_on_a_1.html


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## aceoyame

Gasai Yuno said:


> Well you have to pay these guys then: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/08/new_attack_on_a_1.html


Wow, didn't think 128 bit AES had even been broken yet. Then again that's a really recent article.


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## x13thangelx

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/pr...5-getting-custom-kernels-running-droid-x.html

This is probably the best we're going to do. Even Aliasxerog has said that it wont work though because manufacturers dont release the code for their drivers for the radio and things like that. He gave up on it a little bit ago. It would boot using the kernel but most things wouldnt work...

Face it, we arent getting the signing keys. I was helping WugFresh by doing a little bit of research when he was working on attempting the keys and theres not a chance in hell of brute forcing it.....


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## aceoyame

x13thangelx said:


> http://www.droidforums.net/forum/pr...5-getting-custom-kernels-running-droid-x.html
> 
> This is probably the best we're going to do. Even Aliasxerog has said that it wont work though because manufacturers dont release the code for their drivers for the radio and things like that. He gave up on it a little bit ago. It would boot using the kernel but most things wouldnt work...
> 
> Face it, we arent getting the signing keys. I was helping WugFresh by doing a little bit of research when he was working on attempting the keys and theres not a chance in hell of brute forcing it.....


That sounds like a very similar idea to 2nd init lol. For the radio drivers though... I wonder if there's any floating around open source with the same chip. I think if we troll enough we could find working drivers.


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## x13thangelx

aceoyame said:


> That sounds like a very similar idea to 2nd init lol. For the radio drivers though... I wonder if there's any floating around open source with the same chip. I think if we troll enough we could find working drivers.


Basically 2nd-init for kernels is how I understood it... I know there wasnt for the DX. I dont think anyones really looked for the d2g though. I doubt it because we have different radios than others phones afaik.


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