# No Ics Help From Samsung



## asdr24

Our dreams of seeing much support from Samsung looks to become nightmares. Honestly not surprised but still disappointing to see such a new device be left out.

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/28/wondering-which-samsung-devices-will-get-the-bump-to-ice-cream-sandwich-heres-the-list/


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## stranula

Thats a real shame. Shame on you Samsung


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## Birthofahero

asdr24 said:


> Our dreams of seeing much support from Samsung looks to become nightmares. Honestly not surprised but still disappointing to see such a new device be left out.
> 
> http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/28/wondering-which-samsung-devices-will-get-the-bump-to-ice-cream-sandwich-heres-the-list/


This alone is enough to get me to bit*h at Verizon and give me a prime, or other SUITABLE device that will get updates. 
And I have a way with becoming so much of an annoyance to them that they will comply. I will be going into the same Verizon store, at the same time everyday, talking to the same manager about the same issue. 
Everyday. We'll see how this turns out.


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## RobTheNext

asdr24 said:


> Our dreams of seeing much support from Samsung looks to become nightmares. Honestly not surprised but still disappointing to see such a new device be left out.
> 
> http://www.droid-lif...heres-the-list/


I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't get ICS on the Charge but keep in mind, that Droid Life post is based off of a list from Samsung Italy. They don't have a Droid Charge in Italy so it wouldn't be on that list anyway most likely. These blogs are always quick to jump on any news they can find. I wouldn't put much stock in it yet.


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## Birthofahero

robcomet1 said:


> I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't get ICS on the Charge but keep in mind, that Droid Life post is based off of a list from Samsung Italy. They don't have a Droid Charge in Italy so it wouldn't be on that list anyway most likely. These blogs are always quick to jump on any news they can find. I wouldn't put much stock in it yet.


Great point. 
This made me much less irritated for whatever reason.


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## kart38

Birthofahero said:


> This alone is enough to get me to bit*h at Verizon and give me a prime, or other SUITABLE device that will get updates.
> And I have a way with becoming so much of an annoyance to them that they will comply. I will be going into the same Verizon store, at the same time everyday, talking to the same manager about the same issue.
> Everyday. We'll see how this turns out.


So...you were promised ICS when you bought your Charge? I don't know about you but I bought a Froyo phone with 4G. I didn't buy a Froyo phone with 4G and a promise of an upgrade to GB followed by an update to ICS. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is owed to them that their phone be updated to the latest version of the OS. I really doubt we get ICS, I hope to be wrong but I just don't think it will happen.

Jason


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## blakec432

kart38 said:


> So...you were promised ICS when you bought your Charge? I don't know about you but I bought a Froyo phone with 4G. I didn't buy a Froyo phone with 4G and a promise of an upgrade to GB followed by an update to ICS. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is owed to them that their phone be updated to the latest version of the OS. I really doubt we get ICS, I hope to be wrong but I just don't think it will happen.
> 
> Jason


You make a very good point!


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## kvswim

kart38 said:


> So...you were promised ICS when you bought your Charge? I don't know about you but I bought a Froyo phone with 4G. I didn't buy a Froyo phone with 4G and a promise of an upgrade to GB followed by an update to ICS. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is owed to them that their phone be updated to the latest version of the OS. I really doubt we get ICS, I hope to be wrong but I just don't think it will happen.
> 
> Jason


At least GB.


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## ijustdontcare

It might be along time b4 we even see GB I think, I'm not too hopeful to see it any time soo either... I wish we could get GB and source, then I know we will get some really serious dev going on here!


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## kart38

kvswim said:


> At least GB.


While I'm using the GB leaks I really don't recall it being promised. I hope they eventually, sooner rather than later, release GB because it _is_ much better than Froyo on this phone. I do not, however, feel that they owe it to me/us.

That is the sort of attitude that leads to people not offering help. Be thankful for what you have, don't worry about what you don't (unless you are capable of doing something about it).

Jason


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## Birthofahero

kart38 said:


> So...you were promised ICS when you bought your Charge? I don't know about you but I bought a Froyo phone with 4G. I didn't buy a Froyo phone with 4G and a promise of an upgrade to GB followed by an update to ICS. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is owed to them that their phone be updated to the latest version of the OS. I really doubt we get ICS, I hope to be wrong but I just don't think it will happen.
> 
> Jason


I paid 300$ for a premium flagship phone. So yes I expect it to be updated.


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## xmoox

Birthofahero said:


> I paid 300 for a premium flagship phone. So yes I expect it to be updated.


/agree


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## asdr24

kart38 said:


> So...you were promised ICS when you bought your Charge? I don't know about you but I bought a Froyo phone with 4G. I didn't buy a Froyo phone with 4G and a promise of an upgrade to GB followed by an update to ICS. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is owed to them that their phone be updated to the latest version of the OS. I really doubt we get ICS, I hope to be wrong but I just don't think it will happen.
> 
> Jason


At Google I/O, Google announced that OHA members would start releasing with an 18-month support schedule thus my expectation of ICS.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/10/google-partner-android-initiative/


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## BleedsOrangeandBlue

kart38 said:


> So...you were promised ICS when you bought your Charge? I don't know about you but I bought a Froyo phone with 4G. I didn't buy a Froyo phone with 4G and a promise of an upgrade to GB followed by an update to ICS. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is owed to them that their phone be updated to the latest version of the OS. I really doubt we get ICS, I hope to be wrong but I just don't think it will happen.
> 
> Jason


You can sit there and make this point all day long, and its valid from a logic perspective, but its a terrible business model for companies to drop support of their phones so quickly.

I'm not expecting ICS, but if Samsung shows me that they're unwilling to keep their software current on a 6 month old phone when other companies are supporting their phones for much longer, then this will be the first and last Samsung I buy.

I'm not even that bent about ICS, but I'm not a fan of feeling like I'm already on the outside looking in. I bought the Droid branded VZW flagship phone in July. Its not even the end of the year, and its being pushed to the backburner?


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## kvswim

kart38 said:


> While I'm using the GB leaks I really don't recall it being promised. I hope they eventually, sooner rather than later, release GB because it is much better than Froyo on this phone. I do not, however, feel that they owe it to me/us.
> 
> That is the sort of attitude that leads to people not offering help. Be thankful for what you have, don't worry about what you don't (unless you are capable of doing something about it).
> 
> Jason


I wasn't complaining, I was just saying that we will at least get gingerbread since we are seeing these leaks.


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## Birthofahero

BleedsOrangeandBlue said:


> You can sit there and make this point all day long, and its valid from a logic perspective, but its a terrible business model for companies to drop support of their phones so quickly.
> 
> I'm not expecting ICS, but if Samsung shows me that they're unwilling to keep their software current on a 6 month old phone when other companies are supporting their phones for much longer, then this will be the first and last Samsung I buy.
> 
> I'm not even that bent about ICS, but I'm not a fan of feeling like I'm already on the outside looking in. I bought the Droid branded VZW flagship phone in July. Its not even the end of the year, and its being pushed to the backburner?


Yes, this is exactly how I feel.


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## RobTheNext

Birthofahero said:


> Great point.
> This made me much less irritated for whatever reason.




Sent from my SCH-I510 using RootzWiki Forums


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## Rythmyc

kart38 said:


> While I'm using the GB leaks I really don't recall it being promised. I hope they eventually, sooner rather than later, release GB because it _is_ much better than Froyo on this phone. I do not, however, feel that they owe it to me/us.
> 
> That is the sort of attitude that leads to people not offering help. Be thankful for what you have, don't worry about what you don't (unless you are capable of doing something about it).
> 
> Jason


It actually was promised, when the phone didn't have a name. Samsung said it would be getting GB via a OTA Update.


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## Birthofahero

Rythmyc said:


> It actually was promised, when the phone didn't have a name. Samsung said it would be getting GB via a OTA Update.


+ 100

I feel like all the people that got this phone free via fascinate are the ones "being happy with what they have". Having paid high price for this phone not 6 months ago, I absolutely feel entitled to updates.


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## kart38

Birthofahero said:


> + 100
> 
> I feel like all the people that got this phone free via fascinate are the ones "being happy with what they have". Having paid high price for this phone not 6 months ago, I absolutely feel entitled to updates.


I bought mine, knowing what was coming out and knowing Samsung's track record, just under two months ago. Used my upgrade, that I have to wait 20 months to use again, to get the Charge. The agreement to keep phones updated was too recent to have much of an impact on phones out currently. No one is _entitled_ to upgrades on their phone. That is an exceedingly spoiled view, I bet you are a peach to deal with when you are in a store. You may think it is a poor business model to not update a phone to the latest version of its OS but the facts are that we are a serious minority to these companies. When they are selling millions of a line of one phone, Galaxy S II, you really think they will notice that 10-20k people don't buy their product? Get over yourself, please.

If we see ICS it will be because of the community, not because of Samsung. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see them releasing ICS for us, because it would be for _us_ and not the majority of their customers. Remember, this phone launched with TouchWiz. If they release ICS for the Charge it WILL have TW and look similar to what we have now. No one that isn't a "geek" would see the difference.

Besides, what does ICS do that you can't do with what ever ROM you are currently running?

Jason


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## cujo6801

Ohh my god another (Fun) fest thread

SENT FROM THE DOG POUND


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## Birthofahero

kart38 said:


> I bought mine, knowing what was coming out and knowing Samsung's track record, just under two months ago. Used my upgrade, that I have to wait 20 months to use again, to get the Charge. The agreement to keep phones updated was too recent to have much of an impact on phones out currently. No one is entitled to upgrades on their phone. That is an exceedingly spoiled view, I bet you are a peach to deal with when you are in a store. You may think it is a poor business model to not update a phone to the latest version of its OS but the facts are that we are a serious minority to these companies. When they are selling millions of a line of one phone, Galaxy S II, you really think they will notice that 10-20k people don't buy their product? Get over yourself, please.
> 
> If we see ICS it will be because of the community, not because of Samsung. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see them releasing ICS for us, because it would be for us and not the majority of their customers. Remember, this phone launched with TouchWiz. If they release ICS for the Charge it WILL have TW and look similar to what we have now. No one that isn't a "geek" would see the difference.
> 
> Besides, what does ICS do that you can't do with what ever ROM you are currently running?
> 
> Jason


A peach to deal with? Where do you get that assumption? And please, don't pretend to know who I am.

I just don't understand why people don't think we are entitled. We are entitled. It's still an android phone. Android. Phone. 
This kind of mentality tells me you're still on windows 98.


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## Birthofahero

cujo6801 said:


> Ohh my god another (Female Dog) fest thread
> 
> SENT FROM THE DOG POUND


Yup, having fun?


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## BleedsOrangeandBlue

kart38 said:


> You may think it is a poor business model to not update a phone to the latest version of its OS but the facts are that we are a serious minority to these companies. When they are selling millions of a line of one phone, Galaxy S II, you really think they will notice that 10-20k people don't buy their product? Get over yourself, please.


There's nothing for me to get over, it was just a statement of fact: If my six month old phone doesn't get upgrades alongside its peers, I'll simply move on to one that does (and there are plenty of them). I'm not looking for an Occupy Samsung protest or anything and I, contrary to what you suggest, certainly don't think it'll matter to Samsung.

I'm simply pointing out how I'll better look out for myself in the future and it won't be by taking a chance on getting a Samsung phone that could end up being another bastard child. I do think its a poor business model, regardless. You point out that there are only 10-20k people who may be affected directly, but even in my short time in the Android community I've seen how terrible Samsung's reputation is in this regard. When I was researching between this phone and the Thunderbolt (the only two 4G players on the scene at the time), one of the biggest reasons people cited for purchasing the Bolt was this very issue we're discussing. I thought a Droid branded phone would be "above the fray" a bit in this manner, and I was admittedly spoiled by every iOS up to that point being supported on even my wife's old 3G.

Samsung's reputation here has and will continue to cost them in potential sales. Everyone knows their hardware is solid, but there's a reason that there is so little community support for this phone: this reputation they have. Don't tell me the developer/power user market is irrelevant to Samsung, they proved otherwise by giving phones to the CM team to ensure there was a following.

Like I said, I'm not bent about potentially not getting ICS (in so far as to what the phone can actually do). As long as we get an official GB source code release before Imo and Imnuts get bored and leave, I'll have a phone that I'm content with until the next upgrade cycle rolls around.


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## aaronDroid80

Birthofahero said:


> + 100
> 
> I feel like all the people that got this phone free via fascinate are the ones "being happy with what they have". Having paid high price for this phone not 6 months ago, I absolutely feel entitled to updates.


I got mine as a fascinate replacement, and I'm just frustrated that there hasn't been a gb ota yet. I'm running the ep1w leak, and it's awesome.

Sent from my Gummy Charged FE 2.0 SCH-I510 using RootzWiki Forums


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## Birthofahero

aaronDroid80 said:


> I got mine as a fascinate replacement, and I'm just frustrated that there hasn't been a gb ota yet. I'm running the ep1w leak, and it's awesome.
> 
> Sent from my Gummy Charged FE 2.0 SCH-I510 using RootzWiki Forums


Well I was making a generalization. 
But I agree, im on ep3 and its great.


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## cujo6801

Birthofahero said:


> Yup, having fun?


 Hell yeah...lol

SENT FROM THE DOG POUND


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## Sdeph5200

BleedsOrangeandBlue said:


> There's nothing for me to get over, it was just a statement of fact: If my six month old phone doesn't get upgrades alongside its peers, I'll simply move on to one that does (and there are plenty of them).


I think this mentality is exactly what they are hoping for. The reality is that Android support from manufacturers is god awful to the point of ridiculous. If a restaurant looked at cleanliness like these manufacturers look at support then that restaurant would be shut down permanently and fumugated. It is not asking for alot to expect at least 2 years of upgrades and being up to date on your phone, that is the length of which most people go into contract with these phones. They do it because device owners have proven to them that if they don't get upgrades, they will pay full price for the next big phone.

And then a lightbulb went off for them. My God, these people will pay full price for a new phone, while in contract with their old phone, and only because we stopped upgrading the OS on it?!?!!?!? Just make a new phone!!!!! Perfec! Score! Profit everywhere!!!!.

Dalingrin posted this recently on his twitter - > http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support

At some point this has to stop. The hardware upgrades aren't impressive enough to matter, and therefore the "hardware isn't powerful enough to support the OS" argument doesn't work for the latest phones. This must stop.


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## hvc1911

Sdeph5200 said:


> I think this mentality is exactly what they are hoping for. The reality is that Android support from manufacturers is god awful to the point of ridiculous. If a restaurant looked at cleanliness like these manufacturers look at support then that restaurant would be shut down permanently and fumugated. It is not asking for alot to expect at least 2 years of upgrades and being up to date on your phone, that is the length of which most people go into contract with these phones. They do it because device owners have proven to them that if they don't get upgrades, they will pay full price for the next big phone.
> 
> And then a lightbulb went off for them. My God, these people will pay full price for a new phone, while in contract with their old phone, and only because we stopped upgrading the OS on it?!?!!?!? Just make a new phone!!!!! Perfec! Score! Profit everywhere!!!!.
> 
> Dalingrin posted this recently on his twitter - > http://theunderstate...tory-of-support
> 
> At some point this has to stop. The hardware upgrades aren't impressive enough to matter, and therefore the "hardware isn't powerful enough to support the OS" argument doesn't work for the latest phones. This must stop.


Well the hardware argument definitely doesn't apply here. I think I read somewhere that ICS was developed on the Nexus S? That hardware is identical to the Charge. Not that it matters...


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## kart38

I don't believe the manufacturers care if you buy off contract or not. I'm sure the carriers pay them the same price either way. Also, it isn't like the phones are left a broken mess of a device because they don't get upgraded. The phone still works perfectly fine, the problem is the users that feel they need to be on the bleeding edge. If that is the case then there is no reason to buy anything other than a Nexus phone. Don't kid yourself into thinking anything else will be treated similarly, it won't.

I'm being serious, tell me one thing these phones will do with ICS that they don't currently do. Please, maybe I'm just missing the boat here.

Jason


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## Hexxus

I feel sorry for anyone complacent enough to not be pissed about this.

In what kind of jacked up world does a "flagship" phone not even get supported for updates released in the ~six months that it has been available? Oh yeah, the Android world.


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## Droidianslip

I will never buy another Samsung Product because of it, there is your crappy business model for Ya Samsung.


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## Birthofahero

kart38 said:


> I don't believe the manufacturers care if you buy off contract or not. I'm sure the carriers pay them the same price either way. Also, it isn't like the phones are left a broken mess of a device because they don't get upgraded. The phone still works perfectly fine, the problem is the users that feel they need to be on the bleeding edge. If that is the case then there is no reason to buy anything other than a Nexus phone. Don't kid yourself into thinking anything else will be treated similarly, it won't.
> 
> I'm being serious, tell me one thing these phones will do with ICS that they don't currently do. Please, maybe I'm just missing the boat here.
> 
> Jason


Bleeding edge? We're technically not even on GB. We're pretty far from the edge. 
As far as what ics can do, the same thing gingerbread did to Froyo. Polish, tweaks, usability, stability. Lots of other things that end in bility.


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## DirgeExtinction

Sdeph5200 said:


> I think this mentality is exactly what they are hoping for. The reality is that Android support from manufacturers is god awful to the point of ridiculous. If a restaurant looked at cleanliness like these manufacturers look at support then that restaurant would be shut down permanently and fumugated. It is not asking for alot to expect at least 2 years of upgrades and being up to date on your phone, that is the length of which most people go into contract with these phones. They do it because device owners have proven to them that if they don't get upgrades, they will pay full price for the next big phone.
> 
> And then a lightbulb went off for them. My God, these people will pay full price for a new phone, while in contract with their old phone, and only because we stopped upgrading the OS on it?!?!!?!? Just make a new phone!!!!! Perfec! Score! Profit everywhere!!!!.
> 
> Dalingrin posted this recently on his twitter - > http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support
> 
> At some point this has to stop. The hardware upgrades aren't impressive enough to matter, and therefore the "hardware isn't powerful enough to support the OS" argument doesn't work for the latest phones. This must stop.


LOLOLOL @ the low end phones they name.

I give you this link to counter your link:

http://www.androidcentral.com/editorial-fun-%E2%80%98fragmentation%E2%80%99-charts-or-why-you-shouldn%E2%80%99t-be-distracted-shiny-objects?style_mobile=0


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## scrawfo

You guys have to realize that the mobile world is developing extremely rapidly. I mean in a few short years we have gone from single core phones with 128mb of ram to dual core beasts with a gig of memory. Not to mention quad core phones aren't far out. That's not even accounting for the software growth that we're experiencing. If these companies don't keep producing new phones they'll fall behind in the marketplace. It would cost Samsung or any other company millions to keep every phone they produce updated to the newest version of android. It's just the way the market is right now.

Do I want ICS on the charge? Yes. Am I going to sit and whine about an announcement that hasn't been made on way or another and instead whine about any unofficial list that appears without the charge? No, I have better things to do. Seriously people, grow up. You bought a phone. You had a chance to exchange it after you bought it. If you don't like it, send your dollars elsewhere next time you buy a phone.


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## BleedsOrangeandBlue

To whoever said "that's what they want you to do", I'm not going to buy a phone off contract. The software issue isn't that big of a deal to me anyway, and its certainly not $600 big lol.



scrawfo said:


> Am I going to sit and whine about an announcement that hasn't been made on way or another and instead whine about any unofficial list that appears without the charge? No, I have better things to do.


So your better things to do consists of "whining about people who are whining on a message board"?

You must stay pretty busy :-/


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## scrawfo

Well I'm not whining, I'm trying to tell people that it's not that big of a deal. Ultimately at the end of the day, I don't really care. Some people on here sound like if they don't get an update they are going to curl up and cry for a month or two.

A discussion is fine, some people in here are having a temper tantrum.


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## Birthofahero

scrawfo said:


> Ultimately at the end of the day, I don't really care.


Yes, that's just you tho. 
A lot of people do care, and that's why it is worth discussing.


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## Birthofahero

Double


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## BleedsOrangeandBlue

scrawfo said:


> Well I'm not whining, I'm trying to tell people that it's not that big of a deal. Ultimately at the end of the day, I don't really care. Some people on here sound like if they don't get an update they are going to curl up and cry for a month or two.
> 
> A discussion is fine, some people in here are having a temper tantrum.


Yea, I mean, don't get me wrong... I have noticed that there is a large degree of penis envy in the Android Community and most of it is a little over the top.

I think this topic is a little more than that. There's a difference between the people who are never going to be happy unless they have the absolute latest and greatest at the earliest possible opportunity versus where I consider myself, the middle ground. I'm not so blase that I just don't care about updates, but I'm not so "enthusiastic" that I'm going to jump off a bridge over it being a few months later than everyone else. I think most just want to feel confident that we're not going to become irrelevant so soon.

It also wouldn't feel as bad if the dev community hadn't died off so drastically in the last month or so. I'm in the most infant stages of theming and hope to try to help out imnuts (or anyone else) in the future with getting their ROMs out. I still have a ways to go on that though.

God I need to get off the internet and get back to work lol.


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## clumsyninja21

kart38 said:


> I don't believe the manufacturers care if you buy off contract or not. I'm sure the carriers pay them the same price either way. Also, it isn't like the phones are left a broken mess of a device because they don't get upgraded. The phone still works perfectly fine, the problem is the users that feel they need to be on the bleeding edge. If that is the case then there is no reason to buy anything other than a Nexus phone. Don't kid yourself into thinking anything else will be treated similarly, it won't.
> 
> I'm being serious, tell me one thing these phones will do with ICS that they don't currently do. Please, maybe I'm just missing the boat here.
> 
> Jason


Point is you shouldn't have to void a warranty or bend the rules to get security, bug fixes, and stability issues.


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## clumsyninja21

What I'm saying is that it's not always about simply having the latest and greatest just because. A lot of memory fixes, bug fixes, radio updates, etc come in ota. And I'm not voiding the warranties on my business phones for that. Everyone that knows me here knows I've been hounding vzw and samsung on these points.


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## Droidianslip

I don't think it is so much people wanting the update for the sake of an update, I think many of us are looking to the update to fix the many problems that plague the Droid Charge. If the phone and the version of Froyo on it were flawless, there probably wouldn't be as many clammering for or holding on to the notion that the upgrade will help them out.


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## andycharge

What is the deal with those leaked GB updates? Are they pushed out by Samsung? If so, how does TBH get their hands on them? Does it 100% signify that there will be an official release? Sorry for all the question but I'm just curious.

The longer we go without an official OTA GB update for the Charge, the longer I hold out hope that they push it straight to ICS. Samsung has a leg up on all other companies having worked directly with Google on ICS, perhaps they have something brewing. Is the Charge's hardware good enough to support 4.0?

I know it's a long shot, but it's nice to dream...

Otherwise, I hope there are some awesome, dedicated devs here willing to port it if necessary


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## neyenlives

kart38 said:


> While I'm using the GB leaks I really don't recall it being promised. I hope they eventually, sooner rather than later, release GB because it _is_ much better than Froyo on this phone. I do not, however, feel that they owe it to me/us.
> 
> That is the sort of attitude that leads to people not offering help. Be thankful for what you have, don't worry about what you don't (unless you are capable of doing something about it).
> 
> Jason


I think you have the wrong attitude as a consumer, you sound like a corporate apologist. The corporations would love it if we would buy what was there off the shelf with no expectation of anything else and smile the whole time.......but that's not reality either. Before you get all offended read on. You have to put things in context. In context of today's technology atmosphere, which is one of constant updates. The modus operandi of these companies is release the hardware as soon as possible, and with buggy software. Look at the video gaming arena. Less than 10 years ago a game developer for a console had to release a game that was for the most part bug free and had many many hours of content. There was no "patching" or "updating" the software because our society wasn't so connected. There was no releasing half of the game now for the same $60 and then giving you a small piece every month for 6 months for $10-$15 each time........10 years ago consumers would have told them to fly a kite. These companies have set the bar much lower than before. Their entire business model now revolves around just getting you to buy something and the expectation they have helped foster, is one of continuous and nearly endless software updates. They now release almost everything unfinished and plan to fix it when they get around to it. There is nobody holding them to a standard. This was of doing business needs to stop until these companies develop a clear upgrade path and are able to clearly communicate that to their customers.

So in the context of the way things are today, I think it is more than acceptable for a 6 month old $600 super phone as they advertise it to be updated regularly and as long as it can be given hardware constraints, if any exist. If we are going to allow these companies to operate this way, we need to hold them accountable. Do not release a top tier top dollar smartphone with last years operating system and then abandon it. Is ICS out of reach for the Charge? I don't think so, not hardware-wise anyways. Samsung should do the right thing and adopt a clearly defined upgrade path for their devices. Give customers a realistic expectation. For the Charge that should have easily been, ship with Froyo and upgrade to Gingerbread within X months with major updates after that to be left open-ended, but at least guarantee a $600 super smartphone the latest operating system. That's the bare minimum and they haven't even done that much thus far.

I can see both sides of the argument. People should make informed purchasing decisions, yes. But part of being informed is looking at how the smartphone sector is being handled to date, and one clearly would get the impression that almost every smartphone gets one major revision upgrade in it's lifetime. The Charge came with Froyo which honestly should not have even happened. Gingerbread would be getting it just caught up, and ICS would be, in my opinion, Samsung properly supporting a $600 mobile Google-centric consumer device.


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## clumsyninja21

For what it's worth, @teamandirc and other leak providers have stated recently that the gb charge hold up is on vzw at this point. Every leak you've seen has been submitted to vzw for review. The latest leak is still with vzw. Just for whatever that means.


----------



## Cruiserdude

Yep, as usual, it's Vzw holding us back from GB. Newer builds than EP3HA exist, my only guess is they're still trying to improve the radios. But why they can't release what they have and push a radio update later is beyond me. Still, it's gotta be coming pretty soon, which means source, which means great kernels. Not to mention that it should help us get the ril working for CM7, then it's just a matter of getting the mtd drivers from the sgs2 and we should be about ready for CM9.

Still, that's not official from Samsung, and they should definitely give us that in what was and still is a flagship device for awhile longer. But I see no reason to complain yet, we have no indication that we won't be supported. It would certainly take awhile though, these phones shipped with TouchWiz, so they figure the average dumb customer wouldn't recognize it as the same phone and be completely lost if it suddenly had aosp ICS. So expect it to have some form of TW that feels similar to our existing launcher, though certainly not identical. He'll, the launcher in EP3 doesn't feel the same as EE4, but it is quite similar.

Again though, this has similar hardware to the Nexus S, which ICS was initially developed on, and is still a new high end phone, so just wait a bit before saying it's not coming.


----------



## codelinx

kart38 said:


> I don't believe the manufacturers care if you buy off contract or not. I'm sure the carriers pay them the same price either way. Also, it isn't like the phones are left a broken mess of a device because they don't get upgraded. The phone still works perfectly fine, the problem is the users that feel they need to be on the bleeding edge. If that is the case then there is no reason to buy anything other than a Nexus phone. Don't kid yourself into thinking anything else will be treated similarly, it won't.
> 
> I'm being serious, tell me one thing these phones will do with ICS that they don't currently do. Please, maybe I'm just missing the boat here.
> 
> Jason


Just a quick point about
ICS that the current Froyo and Gingerbread does not have the native ability to do... Burst mode camera shots, HD pics while in video, facial recognition unlock, macro panorama, better image processing, amazing photo editing, gesture navigation seamlessly integrated in every nook and cranny in the phone (i.e. Swipe away gestures for adding and deleting or navigation through application our Web), better integration of application extensions, better non themed OS, quick unlock for camera on the front screen, messaging integrated supposedly into the main unlock screen, very much improved internet browser and browser security & privacy, actively searching Web pages and email, ability to search email while offline for an almost infinite amount of time, private Web browsing ,new look lock screen with I think live wallpaper capabilities and/or background changer, and some other stuff I can't remember.

Honestly I worked for Verizon up until August 31st and I read the internal propaganda they sent to all employees and have on the internal knowledge base and they did promote the fact that the charge will be a long time Samsung product they supported alongside vzw. although I knew samsungs track record I don't expect then to officially release GB earlier then March if that, honestly the update on the fascinate should have shown everyone what to expect. Internally they also had pr problems with customers emailing heads of the company because of their dissatisfaction with the lack of software updates for the fascinate, which pushed their hand to intentionally short the warehouse and offer charges in it's stead.
4G LTE Tapatalked


----------



## imnuts

clumsyninja21 said:


> For what it's worth, @teamandirc and other leak providers have stated recently that the gb charge hold up is on vzw at this point. Every leak you've seen has been submitted to vzw for review. The latest leak is still with vzw. Just for whatever that means.


Not every leak is submitted, but many are. If they're doing weekly builds, odds are they aren't getting feedback as fast as they're updating things, so it may be a build or two between each submission, depending on how quickly feedback is communicated on bugs and such. Also, 90% of the issues with builds come from things VZW would like added into the build (tethering monitor, bloatware, etc.) and very little is due to TouchWiz or the other things Samsung is adding on their own.


----------



## ws6driver

BleedsOrangeandBlue said:


> You can sit there and make this point all day long, and its valid from a logic perspective, but its a terrible business model for companies to drop support of their phones so quickly.
> 
> I'm not expecting ICS, but if Samsung shows me that they're unwilling to keep their software current on a 6 month old phone when other companies are supporting their phones for much longer, then this will be the first and last Samsung I buy.
> 
> I'm not even that bent about ICS, but I'm not a fan of feeling like I'm already on the outside looking in. I bought the Droid branded VZW flagship phone in July. Its not even the end of the year, and its being pushed to the backburner?


Exactly why everyone is expecting the upgrade. Its six months old people. Why not upgrade it. I sure as hell not gonna get a phone just for software and not expect it to be upgraded. I had t-mobile with the mt3g. Came with 1.5 then a month later got 1.6 then a year and some change 2.1. so my friends it can be done

Sent from your moms room


----------



## bL33d

Im running gingerbread so im content but the problem is the damn file system and skin samsung uses if these ran stock/themed with nice samsung widgets it would prob be alot easier for samsung to push out updates.


----------



## outsider2011

All i have to say is that everyone here has made great points on both sides...i for one am on the side of wanting an update whether its GB or ICS. 6 months is not enough to make our phones obsolete. I bought this phone (trading in a TB) knowing that it had potential..all of a sudden i see that tge TB has GB...u know what other phones have it??? Droid x, droid pro, droid 2..list goes on but those phones are a couple years old and their getting updated and their not even flagship phones...so yes i want an update either GB or ICS or both but dont tell us that a 300$ phone only 6months old will stay at froyo and only get leaks to make us feel good...no i want full on OTA's with all the good tweaks and such. For those that dont want uodates or dont vare for them then thats cool obviously your the type that settles for less rather than getting what you pay for...im not saying we just paid for updates but we did pay hella money for a flagship phone that shuld have more updates than it does leaks.


----------



## Cruiserdude

outsider2011 said:


> im not saying we just paid for updates but we did pay hella money for a flagship phone that shuld have more updates than it does leaks.


Are you aware of where the leaks come from? They're leaked test builds that Samsung has created and typically submitted to VZW for review and testing. Which means they're working on an update, as successful companies don't tend to commit groups of software engineers to working on a specific device just for the hell of it. More leaks mean they're testing it that much more, which I for one am in support of. The only way for us to have more updates than leaks is for them to either release the first test build as an OTA and hope for the best, or them to lock the test builds down so tight that we don't get leaks, and are stuck with froyo till the OTA.

Again, people, yes we don't know if we'll get ICS officially or not, though we certainly should. I will be quite frustrated if we don't, but we at least will be getting Gingerbread. If feels nearly complete already, and it is reasonable to assume we'll see it within the next month. There seem to be a lot of people on here who are angry because they don't know if we'll even be getting GB, when we most definitely will. The leaks are proof of that.


----------



## codelinx

outsider2011 said:


> All i have to say is that everyone here has made great points on both sides...i for one am on the side of wanting an update whether its GB or ICS. 6 months is not enough to make our phones obsolete. I bought this phone (trading in a TB) knowing that it had potential..all of a sudden i see that tge TB has GB...u know what other phones have it??? Droid x, droid pro, droid 2..list goes on but those phones are a couple years old and their getting updated and their not even flagship phones...so yes i want an update either GB or ICS or both but dont tell us that a 300$ phone only 6months old will stay at froyo and only get leaks to make us feel good...no i want full on OTA's with all the good tweaks and such. For those that dont want uodates or dont vare for them then thats cool obviously your the type that settles for less rather than getting what you pay for...im not saying we just paid for updates but we did pay hella money for a flagship phone that shuld have more updates than it does leaks.


Not to start a riot, but my motorola Droid aka OG is running gingerbread albeit a leak, but it runs smooth from what I see.... O.O'

4G LTE Tapatalked


----------



## neyenlives

i want to know whats wrong with EP3HA......I've been running it for a long while now, since it got leaked here anyways....with zero issues. Performance is better than ever, better than any of the super modified Froyo builds here and radio performance is also much better.....honestly, as it is, i would be perfectly happy with the stock phone if they released this OTA.....


----------



## hvc1911

neyenlives said:


> i want to know whats wrong with EP3HA......I've been running it for a long while now, since it got leaked here anyways....with zero issues. Performance is better than ever, better than any of the super modified Froyo builds here and radio performance is also much better.....honestly, as it is, i would be perfectly happy with the stock phone if they released this OTA.....


Minus the poop...


----------



## neyenlives

hvc1911 said:


> Minus the poop...


yeah, thats for sure, but you can always root it and run ADW....im saying, i cant figure out why they haven't let EP3HA through as official OTA firmware because it is really good


----------



## Droidianslip

codelinx said:


> Not to start a riot, but my motorola Droid aka OG is running gingerbread albeit a leak, but it runs smooth from what I see.... O.O'
> 
> 4G LTE Tapatalked


I have GB on my daughters OG Droid. Running GPA16, it is a little quirky but it works


----------



## clumsyninja21

P3droid just tweeted 2.3.6 has been submitted to vzw for approval

Sorry that would be gingerbread.


----------



## ws6driver

clumsyninja21 said:


> P3droid just tweeted 2.3.6 has been submitted to vzw for approval
> 
> Sorry that would be gingerbread.


Where did you read this info

Sent from your moms room


----------



## clumsyninja21

ws6driver said:


> Where did you read this info
> 
> Sent from your moms room


Um....twitter


----------



## clumsyninja21

ws6driver said:


> Where did you read this info
> 
> Sent from your moms room


 @P3Droid: Charge Owners be on the lookout, potential official build submitted to VZW, you could be getting Gingerbread !!!
Shared via TweetCaster
@P3Droid: Looks like charge is in line to get 2.3.6 woot!
Shared via TweetCaster


----------



## piperat

BleedsOrangeandBlue said:


> You can sit there and make this point all day long, and its valid from a logic perspective, but its a terrible business model for companies to drop support of their phones so quickly.
> 
> I'm not expecting ICS, but if Samsung shows me that they're unwilling to keep their software current on a 6 month old phone when other companies are supporting their phones for much longer, then this will be the first and last Samsung I buy.
> 
> I'm not even that bent about ICS, but I'm not a fan of feeling like I'm already on the outside looking in. I bought the Droid branded VZW flagship phone in July. Its not even the end of the year, and its being pushed to the backburner?


This is my third samsung phone. This has always been a problem. Get used to it


----------



## Birthofahero

piperat said:


> This is my third samsung phone. This has always been a problem. Get used to it


This isn't even helpful.

Could see ota sooner than you think


----------



## BleedsOrangeandBlue

piperat said:


> This is my third samsung phone. This has always been a problem. Get used to it


Rofl, nope.

I'll get a phone with a reputation for support when its time for my next purchase. No "getting used to it" required.


----------



## neyenlives

I found a relevant article from back in May of this year...

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/05/android-software-updates/


----------



## asdr24

neyenlives said:


> At Google I/O, Google announced that OHA members would start releasing with an 18-month support schedule thus my expectation of ICS.
> 
> http://techcrunch.co...oid-initiative/


----------



## imnuts

piperat said:


> I'll get a phone with a reputation for support when its time for my next purchase. No "getting used to it" required.


It's almost tiring responding to posts like this, but I'll do it anyway. Samsung is not the issue with getting updates. The problem is the carriers asking Samsung to make changes. What was the first phone to get Gingerbread after the Nexus S? The SGS. The SGS2 has received 3 updates in the 5-6 months that it's been out. The SGS has had 6 updates that I can find. If the issue was with Samsung, then why are the non-carrier phones getting updated regularly? Verizon is obviously the biggest issue here as all other SGS models have gotten updated to Gingerbread except for the Fascinate, and the Continuum has yet to even see Froyo officially. Samsung has no issues updating their phones, the carriers just don't want to accept updates. And the updates that do come through likely have probably 90+% of the issues caused by the junk that carriers want added or changed.


----------



## HemiDroid03

The Charge isn't nearly strong enough to handle ICS... If you've noticed all it's Froyo builds have been really unstable and laggy, same goes to GB... until EPH3 I really didn't enjoy my Charge.


----------



## Money Mike

HemiDroid03 said:


> The Charge isn't nearly strong enough to handle ICS... If you've noticed all it's Froyo builds have been really unstable and laggy, same goes to GB... until EPH3 I really didn't enjoy my Charge.


I find it unlikely that the charge could not handle ics...


----------



## number1kgfan

What I wonder is how much different the Galaxy Nexus 4G radio is from the 4G radio on the Droid Charge? (getting the radio to work properly has been the main reason why CM7 hasn't come to the charge). Once the Galaxy Nexus and the ICS source code is released, I think we'll have a much better idea of how probable it is that the Droid Charge will get any kind of an ICS update.

To those who doubt that the Charge has the horsepower to run ICS, think again. If the Nexus S can and will run ICS, then theoretically the Droid Charge can too.


----------



## Birthofahero

HemiDroid03 said:


> The Charge isn't nearly strong enough to handle ICS... If you've noticed all it's Froyo builds have been really unstable and laggy, same goes to GB... until EPH3 I really didn't enjoy my Charge.


This is very, very wrong.
You're talking about software implementation, whereas the hardware is more than capable of running ics.


----------



## kart38

The Charge is more than capable of running ICS. The problem will be if Samsung decides it will put it on the phone AND if Verizon will approve it. Verizon would seem to be the hold up on updates. Hope for the best but expect the worst. Cyanogen may be our best hope at getting ICS on our phones, hopefully that project can make some real progress once we have source for GB.

Jason


----------



## neyenlives

HemiDroid03 said:


> The Charge isn't nearly strong enough to handle ICS... If you've noticed all it's Froyo builds have been really unstable and laggy, same goes to GB... until EPH3 I really didn't enjoy my Charge.


you have no idea how wrong you are obviously because even my wifes old Droid X running AOSP based CM7 flies compared to buggy Touchwizzed Froyo.....the point is even the fully customized Froyo roms are slow compared to AOSP on it's worst day, and the Gingerbread builds are faster yet than the Froyo builds......just sayin', the Charge is more than capable if the software isn't burdened down with crap


----------



## JihadSquad

HemiDroid03 said:


> The Charge isn't nearly strong enough to handle ICS... If you've noticed all it's Froyo builds have been really unstable and laggy, same goes to GB... until EPH3 I really didn't enjoy my Charge.


Isn't the nexus s getting ics? This is a very similarly specced phone.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using RootzWiki Forums


----------



## JuggalotusHeat

kart38 said:


> I don't believe the manufacturers care if you buy off contract or not. I'm sure the carriers pay them the same price either way. Also, it isn't like the phones are left a broken mess of a device because they don't get upgraded. The phone still works perfectly fine, the problem is the users that feel they need to be on the bleeding edge. If that is the case then there is no reason to buy anything other than a Nexus phone. Don't kid yourself into thinking anything else will be treated similarly, it won't.
> 
> I'm being serious, tell me one thing these phones will do with ICS that they don't currently do. Please, maybe I'm just missing the boat here.
> 
> Jason


Hardware Acceleration?


----------



## JuggalotusHeat

HemiDroid03 said:


> The Charge isn't nearly strong enough to handle ICS... If you've noticed all it's Froyo builds have been really unstable and laggy, same goes to GB... until EPH3 I really didn't enjoy my Charge.


You coudln't be more wrong...OG Droid's are able to run CM7 (Gingerbread) with no problems. Also, it has been stated that ICS will work on older hardware and uses less resources...


----------



## JuggalotusHeat

Well...Another Thread Of People Saying "I'm Right and You're Wrong"

We buy phones that we are super interested in and expect updates, which isn't wrong. One major problem is the OEM's find it necessary to put their own "spin" on the OS and in the end takes forever to develop. If the OEM's would pull their heads out of their asses and stop F#cking with the UI, we wouldn't be having this discussion. OEM's need to seriously sit down and take a look at what they're doing and follow the principal of "If it aint broke, don't fix it". Until they follow the previously mentioned principal you will not see updates flying out for each major release or sub-version. Instead you will be left with a device that still hasn't gotten an official GB release. Yes, as an owner I do feel entitled to get updates to a device I purchased if the hardware can support it. If the OEM's want to constantly release devices, get the money and run, so be it but they need to release source for the damn thing so others can continue to develop for devices that they abandon. This whole mentality of "you weren't promised updates so don't expect em'" is a good argument if you got money to blow on a device every time a new OS is released. Sadly, I don't shit wooden nickels and most others don't and the fact people are ok with the idea that there device will only get one major update (maybe), is quite sad.


----------



## kart38

JuggalotusHeat said:


> Hardware Acceleration?


My understanding is that the Charge uses the same GPU as the Galaxy Nexus. I realize the SOC is different, though it is the same as the Nexus S that will be getting ICS, but the graphics processor is the same.

I think the companies alter the OS because, to the average user (which we are not), vanilla Android is ugly. A lot of what gets people to buy a certain phone, after they decide on a price point, is aesthetics.

Jason


----------



## imnuts

The Galaxy Nexus is using the same GPU as the Nexus S and Charge, but it is clocked much faster, almost twice as fast. Either way, if the Nexus S can handle ICS, the Charge can as well.


----------



## electron

imnuts said:


> The Galaxy Nexus is using the same GPU as the Nexus S and Charge, but it is clocked much faster, almost twice as fast. Either way, if the Nexus S can handle ICS, the Charge can as well.


Once (if) we get GB kernel source code, is it not possible to overclock the GPU by itself? I thought I saw something about that on the fascinate forums...

Sent from my SCH-I510


----------



## neyenlives

electron said:


> Once (if) we get GB kernel source code, is it not possible to overclock the GPU by itself? I thought I saw something about that on the fascinate forums...
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510


the Glitch kernel for CM7 on the Fascinate involved GPU overclocking and performance on the Fascinate with that combo was unbelievable. Thats why I laugh every time I see people say the Charge can't run ICS....not only can it run it, it should run it quite handily, after all the bullshit is stripped out. If those naysayers had seen first hand what the Fascinate was capable of and knowing this is essentially the same device with LTE, they would know that the Charge is in good shape once we get source.


----------



## Cruiserdude

The Nexus S was used to develop ICS well before they had developed a hardware specification for the newest Nexus. The Nexus S is basically a Galaxy S as far as hardware is concerned, and the Charge is a Galaxy S with a revision 2 Hummingbird (DDR2 ram, which should help), an LTE/CDMA chipset, and the SGS2's screen and camera. As others have said, it's the last and best of the top-tier single core phones. So no, anyone who says the Charge can't handle ICS doesn't know what they're talking about.

That said, Samsung themselves could easily give us ICS, but as imnuts said, Verizon has a million reasons why they like to deny updates. Anyone who is running one of the latest Gingerbread test builds knows that it runs great and is much better than EE4 Froyo. Yet we still haven't heard anything about an OTA, because that's just how Vzw is. With all this resistance from the carrier about an expected and necessary Gingerbread update, it's not likely that they'll be too keen on devoting more resources to building a much more significant update that isn't likely to get accepted without a ton of work as well. Unless of course Verizon asks them too because it's a Droid.

I'm not saying it's okay or makes sense, but we have about even odds id say of getting it or not. Sure, they could easily just build a vanilla or at least non VZW TouchWiz version and push it through Kies, but they won't, because then Verizon wouldn't support the device. Also they think most Americans are stupid, because they are.

So our most solid chance of getting ICS is from a CM9 port. I'd love to have a fully working aosp ICS build with an mtd glitch kernel, but that will take alot of dev work. And that depends on an active and supportive community, they won't have any motivation if everybody jumps ship and gets a Galaxy Nexus. So support the devs we have, help them out and be patient, consider donating a phone to a dev if you have the means, and thank Samsung for their open source efforts while encouraging them to continue to release source in a timely manner, and release source for their proprietary drivers. And hope.


----------



## neyenlives

well said, that about sums it up

/thread


----------



## stueycaster

My Charge was laggy as hell when I first got it. Even before I got the GummyCharged GBE 2.1 rom it was drastically improved by just switching the file system to ext4 instead of rfs. I knew i was taking a chance when I switched the software on my phone. Yeah if my phone develops a hardware problem I will need to switch it back to stock software before I try to get it replaced by Verizon. If I can't do that I might be out $300.00 for a screwed up phone. But I think it's worth taking the chance. I really like my Charge a lot since I installed the GummyCharged rom. It really was totally unsatisfactory with Froyo and the rfs file system.

Whoever is keeping the Charge from getting better software really is ripping off it's users. But the average technology user cares more about having bragging rights over what they own than having a good product. Look at the condition of the American Automobile industry. Americans still want to spend crazy amounts of money on gas guzzling machines with tons of power that is illegal and fool hardy to use. Americans are begging to get ripped off. In some other large market countries like China and Japan it's illegal to sell a vehicle that gets the terrible gas mileage that American cars do.

Also they want to brag about having sound systems with thousands of watts of power. Being a musician I know how much volume can be produced out of properly set up electronics with small amounts of wattage. Yeah their high powered systems produce a lot of power but it never comes out of the speakers. It gets soaked up somewhere. If a system is properly set up to efficiently use all that power the volume that comes out of a 1,000 watt sound system would make our ears bleed. But I've had people jump all over me because I told them that their high powered stereo was nothing but hype.

It's no wonder Samsung and Verizon treat us like they do. People like us who prefer to know the truth about technology are a very small minority.

I'll probably piss off some people with this but once in a while I need to vent.


----------



## neyenlives

the devs have source, we dont need Samsung, or not much anyways

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/ice-cream-sandwich-source-code-released-sync-pending-go-ahead-f/


----------



## asdr24

neyenlives said:


> the devs have source, we dont need Samsung, or not much anyways
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/ice-cream-sandwich-source-code-released-sync-pending-go-ahead-f/


Exactly my thoughts all along. I have more faith in this dev community's abilities than I do Verizon's stringent "testing" policies.


----------



## dewijaro

oops.


----------



## dewijaro

neyenlives said:


> Exactly my thoughts all along. I have more faith in this dev community's abilities than I do Verizon's stringent "testing" policies.


I might be wrong, but we need the source kernel from Samsung for our phone in specific. That will give the Devs a better chance at getting all the hardware working properly. (4G modem in specific)


----------



## neyenlives

dewijaro said:


> I might be wrong, but we need the source kernel from Samsung for our phone in specific. That will give the Devs a better chance at getting all the hardware working properly. (4G modem in specific)


my understanding is we only need very little info from them for the LTE radio, other than that it's already done, for GB based CM anyways


----------



## BleedsOrangeandBlue

imnuts said:


> It's almost tiring responding to posts like this, but I'll do it anyway. Samsung is not the issue with getting updates. The problem is the carriers asking Samsung to make changes. What was the first phone to get Gingerbread after the Nexus S? The SGS. The SGS2 has received 3 updates in the 5-6 months that it's been out. The SGS has had 6 updates that I can find. If the issue was with Samsung, then why are the non-carrier phones getting updated regularly? Verizon is obviously the biggest issue here as all other SGS models have gotten updated to Gingerbread except for the Fascinate, and the Continuum has yet to even see Froyo officially. Samsung has no issues updating their phones, the carriers just don't want to accept updates. And the updates that do come through likely have probably 90+% of the issues caused by the junk that carriers want added or changed.


I don't really care who is to blame in it all as I'm not that much of a purist. I haven't been with Big Red for very long. Are you telling me that every single one of their phones has a poor track record for updates? If not, then I'm not really sure I get your point. If that is the case, then I'll change my stance to...something. /shrug


----------



## charlie_c

BleedsOrangeandBlue said:


> I don't really care who is to blame in it all as I'm not that much of a purist. I haven't been with Big Red for very long. Are you telling me that every single one of their phones has a poor track record for updates? If not, then I'm not really sure I get your point. If that is the case, then I'll change my stance to...something. /shrug


The HTC Thunderbolt is a good example. First LTE phone carried by Verizon, the launch date was around 3/17 I think. First GB roll out wasn't until 9/27. Unfortunately, it was a total mess and was pulled immediately. Wasn't re-released until 10/25. Between launch and GB update was 194 days (I think). Between launch and _successful _GB update was 222 days. If our Charge was on the same cycle roughly, we would be due for the update between now and Dec 13-ish. In the mean time, how many builds has Samsung submitted to Verizon? A half-dozen or more? I've had three or four 2.3.4 builds, plus 2.3.5 and now 2.3.6 loaded on my phone in the last few months. That's averaging about 1 a month since our phone was released. Verizon deciding to accept a build as an official OTA is a different story, and based on the initial HTC TB OTA, I'd rather them make sure they're releasing a fully working product.


----------



## repilce

Verizon just needs to get out of the way.. plain and simple.. unfortunately the "average joe" makes up a staggering greater portion of customer base. Sadly, that is what they cater to. Same deal as PC OEM's and their bloatware deals. It's part of a ridiculous business model.


----------



## BleedsOrangeandBlue

charlie_c said:


> The HTC Thunderbolt is a good example.


So all phones on VZN are like this?


----------



## charlie_c

BleedsOrangeandBlue said:


> So all phones on VZN are like this?


Maybe not all to the same degree, but I think the LTE handsets have slightly more hoops to jump through than the single radio CDMA handsets. I can see a lot of improvement in radio performance between 2.3.6 and 2.3.4., so I know that's one area they've been working on. Just my opinion anyways.


----------



## Rythmyc

Here's something to choke on. 90% of Verizon customers don't even know what Gingerbread or ICS is. If you asked 1000 people with Android phones what version they are running. Almost 900 of them would give you a dumfounded look and say "Droid, it's an Droid phone". 90 of them MAY say Froyo or Gingerbread. 10 of them, if you're lucky. Would tell you 2.*. Respectively. Verizon knows this. Those 90% hate changes that would break a otherwise working phone and new features they would have to learn. If you honestly think they care about the VERY small margin that do care what version they are running, then you're very wrong.


----------



## Cruiserdude

Say what you will about version numbers, sure. But most "normal" Charge users I have encountered, and it's been quite a few, say they love the screen but the phone is seriously laggy. When I let them play with mine, running slightly tweaked ep4p with imoseyon's kernel, they're blown away and can't wait for the update. Sure, they may not know the difference between Froyo, Gingerbread, and ICS, but they definitely want better performance, and recognize it when they see it. The Charge will likely see a new renaissance in sales when they finally push this ota, given its much lower price compared to more recent offerings.


----------



## spc_hicks09

kart38 said:


> So...you were promised ICS when you bought your Charge? I don't know about you but I bought a Froyo phone with 4G. I didn't buy a Froyo phone with 4G and a promise of an upgrade to GB followed by an update to ICS. I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is owed to them that their phone be updated to the latest version of the OS. I really doubt we get ICS, I hope to be wrong but I just don't think it will happen. Jason


I don't think anyone really thinks that they're OWED an update (ok well some idiots do). It's more of a "why not" thing for me. Why not the Charge? LG Revolution got updated to GB, Thunderbolt got updated to GB, neither being a branded or "flagship" phone so why not our Charge? Believe me when I say I DO NOT think I'm owed a update or anything. I just don't understand the whole process behind who gets updates and when, which is a little more frustrating than anything else.


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## stueycaster

spc_hicks09 said:


> I don't think anyone really thinks that they're OWED an update (ok well some idiots do). It's more of a "why not" thing for me. Why not the Charge? LG Revolution got updated to GB, Thunderbolt got updated to GB, neither being a branded or "flagship" phone so why not our Charge? Believe me when I say I DO NOT think I'm owed a update or anything. I just don't understand the whole process behind who gets updates and when, which is a little more frustrating than anything else.


I think we're owed updates. I think it's pretty stupid on Google's part to allow Android users to use products that don't work good. Android phones drive people to use iPhones all the time. Verizon sells the iPhone now. People get sick of their phones working badly and switch. It happens all the time.

The only way we can have a decent phone is to install custom software and break our warranties. Either that or use an iPhone and let Apple control it for us. Some choices huh?

Damn it, I will have a phone that has all the best even if I do break my warranty. Thank God for Team Gummy.


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## charlie_c

stueycaster said:


> I think it's pretty stupid on Google's part to allow Android users to use products that don't work good.


There have been 100 million Android devices activated in the last 6 months - they're doing something right. The reality is, most users (meaning the majority of normal users, not people that root and modify their devices) are decently happy with their phones. If they get GB, they'll be happy and pleasantly surprised, but they probably don't know what it is or that it is coming.

The 2.3.6 GB build that was leaked is probably it for us in terms of official support. It's like SP3 for Windows XP. From a bugfix perspective, I think it addresses a lot of them. The added features and revised UI of 4.0 is great, but you can't use the bugfix argument to try and rationalize getting it - those should all be addressed in 2.3.6 hopefully. Updating to 4.0 could easily introduce more bugs than we have now.

There is a lot of alignment that needs to happen between Google, handset manufacturers, and service providers before you'll start seeing all updates efficiently rolling out to all devices. We can hope for it, but there's no point in getting bent out of shape when the blame falls on everyone involved (on the device side). Part of the appeal of Androids is the variety (variety of hardware, UIs, service providers, etc). This is the flipside of that. This is why the iPhone has a longer support cycle - it's consistent.


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## Money Mike

Just because there have been a lot of activations doesn't mean people are happy with android. How many if these activations are repeat customers? I prefer android because I like customization. But being honest I believe android is going in the wrong direction by releasing too many phones and not supporting the phones that are already released. The majority of my friends have already jumped ship from android to apple. They are not interested in customization. They just want a phone that functions properly and is supported.


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## charlie_c

[quote name=&#39;Money Mike&#39; timestamp=&#39;1321539481&#39; post=&#39;237571&#39;]
Just because there have been a lot of activations doesn't mean people are happy with android. How many if these activations are repeat customers? I prefer android because I like customization. But being honest I believe android is going in the wrong direction by releasing too many phones and not supporting the phones that are already released. The majority of my friends have already jumped ship from android to apple. They are not interested in customization. They just want a phone that functions properly and is supported.
[/quote]

Year after year increases in sales and market share do tend to indicate some sort of consumer satisfaction. Doesn't mean they're without problems or that the growth is sustainable of course, but I don't think the characterization of the "majority" of Android users being unhappy is a fair one.

Anyways, when I said "decently happy with their phones", I was referring to Charge users specifically. The user ratings for the Charge on most sites I've seen average between 3-4/5 stars, which to me, means decently happy. I've seen users on Android forums talking about there being grounds for a class action lawsuit over the phone. See the difference between normal users and us?

Google is well aware of the fragmentation issue, which is why they made an announcement at I/O that they wanted to make a goal of an 18 month support cycle for all Android handsets that would practically support it. Unfortunately, there is a lot of work to be done by handset makers and wireless providers to make this happen, which is where the alignment comes into place. Also, this goal is just that. A goal. it's not mandatory and there is no enforcement mechanism that I'm aware of. The only easy solution would be to eliminate non-Google phones. No more manufacturer interfaces, no more carrier-specific skins, etc. Basically just have the Nexus. At least then, it would be the same hardware with same OS being updated for all users. Same as the iPhone. I doubt this would be the preference for most users though.

I've owned plenty of Apple products, including iPhones, and trust me it swings both ways. I'm much happier with my Android than I was with my iPhone.


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## Money Mike

I didn't really mean for my comment to completely disagree with you. I know a lot of happy android users also. I just believe that the more casual phone users are tending to side with apple. I think that if phone manufacturers and verizon were more interested in improving their current phones rather than pushing out new phones then android would be much better. That being said I'm perfectly happy with my charge running the latest gingerbread leak. If it were not possible to root and rom these phones though I could possibly have ended up being an apple fanboy lol.


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## charlie_c

Money Mike said:


> I didn't really mean for my comment to completely disagree with you. I know a lot of happy android users also. I just believe that the more casual phone users are tending to side with apple. I think that if phone manufacturers and verizon were more interested in improving their current phones rather than pushing out new phones then android would be much better. That being said I'm perfectly happy with my charge running the latest gingerbread leak. If it were not possible to root and rom these phones though I could possibly have ended up being an apple fanboy lol.


Yea, I think my phone lasted a whole 5 days before I rooted it. If Androids were locked up too...not sure what I would have done. WP7?


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## Money Mike

charlie_c said:


> Yea, I think my phone lasted a whole 5 days before I rooted it. If Androids were locked up too...not sure what I would have done. WP7?


When I bought my original droid it took me about a month to get the courage to root it. Then I bought a droid x and rooted it within a couple days. My charge didn't last 24 hours lol.


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## Money Mike

I also just want to say that charge owners should relax a bit. I think our phone's best days are still ahead. Just look at the droid x. Everyone gave up on it because of the locked bootloader. There were good roms but development was pretty scarce. Once 2nd-init was discovered development blew up on that device. We already have an unlocked bootloader and before too long the charge will drop quite a bit in price. I think we have a lot to look forward to if we just give it some time.


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## fixxxer2012

yeah you charge owners sure got the shaft just like it took over a year for the epic4g to get gingerbread. samsung and verizon should be ashamed. i don't regret trading my charge for a dinc2. i wish you guys luck!


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## electron

fixxxer2012 said:


> yeah you charge owners sure got the shaft just like it took over a year for the epic4g to get gingerbread. samsung and verizon should be ashamed. i don't regret trading my charge for a dinc2. i wish you guys luck!


Not to be a jerk, but I must say (with great sarcasm), thank you for that insightfull, enlightening comment!

In all seriousness though, I don't think we will ever see official ICS, but an unofficial port will come to the charge eventually. Just hang in there, guys.

Sent from my SCH-I510


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## Rythmyc

fixxxer2012 said:


> yeah you charge owners sure got the shaft just like it took over a year for the epic4g to get gingerbread. samsung and verizon should be ashamed. i don't regret trading my charge for a dinc2. i wish you guys luck!


Oh those poor Dinc 2 forum users. I can hear the screams from here!


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## stueycaster

Money Mike said:


> When I bought my original droid it took me about a month to get the courage to root it. Then I bought a droid x and rooted it within a couple days. My charge didn't last 24 hours lol.


The Charge is my first smart phone. I had a feature phone before and data transfer rates were ridiculous. From the numbers I kept seeing about the performance on 3g phones there was no way I was going to spend that amount of money for a smart phone just to have internet that compared to dial-up. I used cable internet for years and was way too spoiled by the speed. If I couldn't have 4g I still wouldn't have one.

But then 4g phones came to my area and they were talking about data limits so I knew it was now or never. I bought the Charge because it looked better than the Thunderbolt. I knew there would be better phones soon but not before the data caps came into being. I even had to take the plunge before my renewal cycle came up.

They were already talking about the Charge being laggy but it was either that or data caps so I took the plunge. I really thought I wanted to run it stock forever. I thought breaking my warranty was a bad idea. But I was interested in rooting and custom roms and kept hanging out in these forums. If there was no way to return it to stock I would have never done it. I had it for a couple months before I got fed up with the poor performance enough to change it.

Now since it has all custom software I'm glad I have it. I finally have an excellent smart phone on unlimited 4g data. I really feel like the phone and service providers put me through way too much grief to get to this point though. I'm not into this because I like to try new things on my phone. I just wanted a really awesome smart phone.

Now I look at the Bionic and see the display is not as good as the Charge and the Razr has a non-removable battery. The little power gains don't cancel out those inadequacies. I still like my Charge best.

But the powers that are still won't give us decent software for it. They advertise that their phones are great. But we Americans are so used to being lied to by advertisers that we just keep allowing them to get away with it. So Android users get pissed and switch to Apple and Apple users get pissed and switch to Android. That's a pretty sorry state of affairs if you ask me.


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## fixxxer2012

electron said:


> Not to be a jerk, but I must say (with great sarcasm), thank you for that insightfull, enlightening comment!
> 
> In all seriousness though, I don't think we will ever see official ICS, but an unofficial port will come to the charge eventually. Just hang in there, guys.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510


it's cool but i wasn't being a jerk either.


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## electron

fixxxer2012 said:


> it's cool but i wasn't being a jerk either.


Alright, cool.

Sent from my SCH-I510


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## eckdawg5

Obviously the Charge hasn't seen much interest from devs but do you guys think we'll see any ICS based ROMs anytime soon?


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## Birthofahero

No.


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## Endless2232

Birthofahero said:


> No.


+1.


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## Cruiserdude

This has been discussed pretty thoroughly already. No, its not likely we'll see an official ICS port real soon, considering we still need a working RIL for any AOSP build. Its not likely a dev will take the time to port ICS to the Charge at this point when they know it won't have a connection. This could change however if the LTE Nexus source (which hasn't been released yet) includes the full RIL, and the hardware is similar enough to ours to make it work, or if something about the ICS kernel in general makes it easier to code a new RIL. Unfortunately the GB source drop didn't include the RIL code like we were hoping for, so until this fairly major hurdle is cleared, we won't have working AOSP roms.


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## nitsuj17

unlikely? yes

impossible? no


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## eckdawg5

surprisingly the fascinate has an ICS rom developed. I know the stipulation with the charge would be the LTE based RIL but it's cool to see some phones getting it that otherwise would probably have no chance at an OEM version.


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## superwrench1

What is "RIL"?

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


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## landshark

superwrench1 said:


> What is "RIL"?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Interface_Layer


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## kbucksot

imnuts07 Mark 




@*_jt1134_* if I can offer any help with charge ICS stuff, let me know

There are people working on it


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## bwheelies

After playing with ICS on my fascinate, I don't care if we get it on the charge. It doesn't seem like an upgrade to me.


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## Cruiserdude

Keep in mind that's a very early alpha build, it's not yet stable, and many features aren't working. He wants to get the basic necessities first, then he can work on native implementation for such performance improvements as hardware acceleration, which will make quite a noticeable difference. Alot of performance features are currently disabled or not working properly, and that will change.

Also, realize that there are some pretty powerful tweaks available for GB kernels, and many of us are used to that. So just imagine how well it will perform once similar tweaks find their way into ICS kernels. And of course working ICS brings CM9 when it's available, so you'll get all those extra features and customisation you know and love.


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## neyenlives

bwheelies said:


> After playing with ICS on my fascinate, I don't care if we get it on the charge. It doesn't seem like an upgrade to me.


thanks for being the minority, otherwise the majority would not look so large


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