# [Rant] Flash-Noobs And Their More-Obnoxious "I KNOW IT ALL" Friends



## Jubakuba (Sep 8, 2011)

Are you a flash-noob?
Cool. We were all there at one point.
Learn. Follow. Experiment. You'll pick it up. And don't ever be afraid to ask for help.
You aren't my demographic here.

Hey you. Yeah. You! When you flash a new rom/kernel...Do you find yourself posting 10 times to update the ever-increasing list of bugs you're having? Do you get "horrible battery" on build 22 but not 21? Do you find your phone laggy on kernelultrah4x 2.1 but not 1.9?
Well then...you screwed up.

I'm %100 confident on this theory. And I really REALLY wish there was a developer willing to risk his/her reputation on releasing such a thing...
But I can *guarantee you* that this would happen.

A developer releases a rom/kernel. He then provides an "update" to said rom/kernel 10 times over the course of a couple months. These "updates" would literally be the same build...The same exact rom/kernel. Build 1 is the same as build 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,&10. The .zip might have a huge text file hidden somewhere in each build. A text file that does nothing...but changes in size depending on the "builds" that are released.

You'd have members:
"OMG. So laggy on build 4. Build 3 was so much better."
"Wow, massive deep sleep issues in build 8. Reverting back to 7 until it's fixed."
"Build 9 is much better on battery. Thanks!"
"This rom/kernel just keeps getting faster and smoother! I can't wait for build 10!"

The point is...If you're noticing that you have a lot of problems going from build to build...It probably doesn't have to do with the rom/kernel itself. You're seeing massive deep-sleep issues but L3374H4X isn't? Well...you've got something conflicting there.
Don't say "you've tried everything. It's definitely the build's fault." It isn't. Unless the reported error is widely accepted (generally doesn't happen) the 400 new glitches that are introduced on each update are your own doing.

And to be fair...
I'm not talking "Ok...dialer isn't loading in landscape."
"Me either"
"Nor I"
Type bugs.

I'm talking.
"Everything that uses data FC's upon opening"
"Google+ won't sync anymore. Please fix."
"My camera is taking really dark photos on this version. Reverting."
And nobody else is having the problem.

If you're reverting...To a Nandroid...You're going back to where you were comfortably running. Do I have to explain that concept? Something went wrong in your install. If you are experiencing it...And upon posting about it...Five people quote you saying they have no such problem...Don't then state "Plox Fix Nao Okai dev? so bad me no like." The developer is going to ignore it...And you're going to end up unhappy.

The thing is, you probably won't notice a difference between builds of kernels especially. Generally...a new kernel version is released...and the changes are minor to the end user. I'm not undermining the developer's work, here. Rather backing them up. But going from 2.0.1.3a to 2.0.1.3b isn't generally going to make you say "Wow, you've done it again. My phone is now running on its third week without charging." Expect this: Your phone will die in a day. And strive for it. Can't make it? Change kernels. Find your zen of kernel/rom/uv/clock/etc. Still can't make it? Then you're either again...doing something wrong...or are a very heavy user...and all that can be said is you need to buy a second battery. We have batteries in these things after all. There is only so much that can be done to the software to compensate for lack of a 40980984098mAh battery.

Fix your little insignificant problems yourselves. Clean installs, kids. Clean installs...and use debugging applications (in the case of "bad battery" builds) to find YOUR problem.

Ugh.
Thoughts?


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## NatemZ (Jun 13, 2011)

This looks like song lyrics or a poem







But I agree


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## cubsfan187 (Jul 17, 2011)

I also have to agree with this. Fresh installs everytime/all the time are the best "cures" for bugs you have that no one else does. If literally "all else fails" then by all means, ask for help.


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## Jubakuba (Sep 8, 2011)

NatemZ said:


> This looks like song lyrics or a poem
> 
> 
> 
> ...











Unformatted to as "normal" as I can stomach. That return key is a horrible habit of mine.
Edit:
Oh, and not offended.
I kn...wait...doing it again...and the ellipses...ya. Bad habits.


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## miketoasty (Jun 10, 2011)

Also, when restoring apps unless you are going to a very similar ROM you should mostly just restore the app and not the data as well as that can cause a lot of problems.

Also, also, when I first started with Android (Droid 2, Oct 2010), I read a ton of posts and watched a lot of YouTube videos, but sadly a lot of people who get Android phones and want to root them are people with little technical skill and don't feel like they have the time (Maybe 2 or 3 hours) to figure out how things actually work, which bites them in the ass when they flash a Froyo kernel on a Gingerbread ROM, then their phone boot loops and they instantly start a new thread which could be easily fixed if they would have read the first couple lines in the OP which I am sure states to only flash on a certain Android build.

But of course, we are here to help and we will continue to do so no matter what ridiculous things end up getting posted because, well, we love Android.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

Lmao.. this borders on "annoyed rant" but doesn't quite cross the line (ok, maybe a little, lol).. all points are 100% valid though 

There is no fighting the noobs, they grow in numbers exponentially faster than the "educated" haha. When I'm troubleshooting for people and I find myself ready to unleash on some fool for posting a ridiculous complaint (you have plenty of good examples of them in OP) I just take a deep breath and either write something helpful or ignore completely.

But yeah, 99% of the "issues" people have are their own fault... like you said, we were all noobs at some point though, all we can do is try to help and educate, and keep it as fun as possible for everyone.. we're all just here because we love flashing shit!


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

Oh god just thought of one of my Favorite-to-HATE complaints: "android OS takes up 39% battery on this build but only 12% on previous... reverting until fix"

Lol the most inconsequential and NOT ROM-controlled stat people love to go crazy about is the percentages in those battery meters...

....that and completely worthless benchmark scores..









Everytime I see someone post about either of these things I want to put my fist through my monitor lol


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## dmmarck (Feb 28, 2012)

What amazes me about those new to rooting (I personally detest the term noob, but that's only because I suck at League of Legends) is the "skimping" in the process. 95% of the comments you just listed all derive from fairly simply issues--not wiping, not flashing something correctly (or in the correct order), or an app that simply doesn't work with that build of Android (or the rom). If everyone with those issues just took 3 more seconds to wipe cache and dalvik before flashing a kernel, a radio, hell, a theme--or even just making routine nandroids, then we (and by we I mean the Android community) would see less of this.

But, people get excited, they rush, and it's hard to hold them back. I was there at one point, so I understand.


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## miketoasty (Jun 10, 2011)

2defmouze said:


> Oh god just thought of one of my Favorite-to-HATE complaints: "android OS takes up 39% battery on this build but only 12% on previous... reverting until fix"
> 
> Lol the most inconsequential and NOT ROM-controlled stat people love to go crazy about is the percentages in those battery meters...
> 
> ...


My favorite was back on the Thunderbolt when it got AOSP... AOSP battery life is terrible, it must be because Android OS is using 75% of the battery, but in tests they both got the same battery life. People just love to read things that they don't understand and jump on those numbers/readings/etc until they get a straight answer as to why it is what it is.


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## Jubakuba (Sep 8, 2011)

It'


miketoasty said:


> Also, when restoring apps unless you are going to a very similar ROM you should mostly just restore the app and not the data as well as that can cause a lot of problems.
> 
> Also, also, when I first started with Android (Droid 2, Oct 2010), I read a ton of posts and watched a lot of YouTube videos, but sadly a lot of people who get Android phones and want to root them are people with little technical skill and don't feel like they have the time (Maybe 2 or 3 hours) to figure out how things actually work, which bites them in the ass when they flash a Froyo kernel on a Gingerbread ROM, then their phone boot loops and they instantly start a new thread which could be easily fixed if they would have read the first couple lines in the OP which I am sure states to only flash on a certain Android build.
> 
> But of course, we are here to help and we will continue to do so no matter what ridiculous things end up getting posted because, well, we love Android.


Hey buddy...
Check my sig.
I got so fed up with the DX users...
I made a signature.
Noob-proof. And every detail included.

"OMGLULZ BOOTLOOP"
Hey punk. Check my sig.
Close thread.
Damn I'm good.

__________________
And to be clear here...
I'm not ranting so much on the noobs that DON'T know what they're doing...
But more "advanced" or "experienced" users who insist they "did it right" and it isn't "their fault."
Which...I guess means noob...but a cocky noob.
I mean...shit.
I make mistakes. I ask questions.
I had a theme that I was shitting over for 3 hours until I realized I applied a framework mod that was causing the bootloop upon 3 nandroids>reinstall attempts.
It's not that I want people to stop asking...I just wish they wouldn't demand/insist they (the %1 with this problem) are right...and everyone else is wrong.


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## wideopn11 (Aug 1, 2011)

Oh my god where is this kernelultrah4x 2.1? Does it work with with the nexus?

I am so joking, lmao!

Agree with everything in the OP, but its lost cause. People are lazy.


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## MFD00M (Aug 31, 2011)

wideopn11 said:


> Oh my god where is this kernelultrah4x 2.1? Does it work with with the nexus?
> 
> I am so joking, lmao!
> 
> Agree with everything in the OP, but its lost cause. *People are lazy.*


that says it all. when i first got my og evo, i must have read and read and read some more for months before i even posted a question. What's worse is, "i dont have time to read all that" then how/why do you have time to even root to begin with and flash new roms and log in to bitch and complain.....anyway


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

MFD00M said:


> that says it all. when i first got my og evo, i must have read and read and read some more for months before i even posted a question. What's worse is, "i dont have time to read all that" then how/why do you have time to even root to begin with and flash new roms and log in to bitch and complain.....anyway


Haha one of my favs as well 

The devs spend hundreds of hours putting together their ROMs and people don't want to spend an hour doing some research, or catching up on what's already been covered a dozen times throughout a thread... LE SIGH


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## djxkxoz (Sep 22, 2011)

MFD00M said:


> that says it all. when i first got my og evo, i must have read and read and read some more for months before i even posted a question. What's worse is, "i dont have time to read all that" then how/why do you have time to even root to begin with and flash new roms and log in to bitch and complain.....anyway


THIS. I camped 5 to 6 different forums sites when I first decided to soft brick my D2 (yes, a few times I had to sbf back). Fortunately some of us do take the time to read as I knew someone out there has had to have killed their phone. Through all of this I learned that 99% of the time if something doesn't work - it's my fault not someone elses.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

'nother one (this is now the official ranting about forum people thread):

People that ask a stupid question (sorry, there ARE stupid questions) then bump their question multiple times when nobody responds.. because they don't realize people are usually not responding because simply:
1. Its been asked and answered a million times already and everyone is trying to ignore you rather than yell at you for not reading a page back..
or
2. Nobody knows the answer or your question is phrased poorly.. and rather than give you bad info everyone is just politely sitting out..

Everyone can see your question the first time! If it isn't getting answered there are reasons.. quit being a nuisance!

/rant


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## Schoat333 (Jun 14, 2011)

What we really need is another thread asking about the swagger toggle.


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## nunyazz (Jun 6, 2011)

+1.. 
AND.... Those lovely informative and helpful thread titles like:

"Help"
"Can I"
"Why is this happening"

But all in all I agree. Most folks are just too lazy to do the research and somehow feel entitled. Not sure what the community and Dev's owe these people, but they think they do.
#justsayin'


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

nunyazz said:


> +1..
> AND.... Those lovely informative and helpful thread titles like:
> 
> "Help"
> ...


Haha especially when it's a ridiculous question too! Often I won't respond even if I can help them, if I suspect they aren't idiots and just titled the thread that way to get attention


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## BlackDobe (Sep 2, 2011)

When people ask me about rooting/ROMing I always tell them there are three simple rules to all of this.
1) Read the instructions.
2) READ THE INSTRUCTIONS
3) Make a backup.

The devs in the Android community have made everything so painless & fun that it really doesn't warrant all the over-posted, under-read, questions. Most folks don't want to read & want everything handed to them because they feel a dev made something & shared it so now they are owed support. It comes down to the fact that people are lazy and thus makes them ignorant. Most people just post issues with no attempt to fix or find out what is even wrong. I always see the "your new feature is broken" but rarely see "but I tried X-Y-Z to fix it with no luck." Some one needs to go around and start hitting people with tack hammers. All this hobby/addiction requires is a little time & effort.


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## litso (Jun 7, 2011)

Its not just the Android community. I work in the IT industry (and I'm certain this prevails in many other industries as well) but this is a constant battle I fight with my users. Yea, I understand its my job to know everything about technology, and no I don't expect everyone to know everything, but good grief. As soon as something doesn't go exactly as expected they come screaming to the experts, even if its as simple as waiting another few seconds for an application to load.

Personally, when I have a question about Android, or anything, the first thing that goes through my head is "I wonder how stupid I'm going to look if I ask this question." That prompts me to DO A LITTLE RESEARCH. Do a Google search, read the OP, skim over the last couple pages of a thread, anything. Someone else has had your problem, and they've put it on the internet. You can find the answer to 99% of the questions you may have in your entire life on any subject just by doing a Google search. It takes less time than it would to ask someone else and wait on a response, and you better yourself for having found the answer on your own.

Once again, I don't expect everyone to be an expert on everything. There are plenty of things that I know nothing about. In that case, ask a question and get some help if its too overwhelming for you right now. But when you ask that question, be humble, open minded, and appreciative of those that try to help you. Do everything in your power to help others help you (that means being descriptive, using a little punctuation, etc). Even if the advice someone gives is incorrect be appreciative that they took the time to try (unless they were being intentionally malicious).


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## times_infinity (Aug 6, 2011)

This thread is pure gold. Being a 'retired' dev coming from the Fascinate and Inc2 , some users with the Galaxy Nexus now still remember my work on the Fascinate I've experienced almost every single one of these points in my threads. And I'd have to say, sadly that they're all true. People don't read the OP. And then ask questions about something that has already been addressed in the OP.

But overall, even as an end user now we all share the same gripe when people don't read and get flash happy and when something doesn't work they're automatically right about it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## SpinningHook (Jun 15, 2011)

Despite my deep disdain for things like tapatalk sigs, emoticons, "l33t" speak, and the phrase, "lol" (including it's variations and when people use it reference to their own joke), I continue to read these forums, in order to continue moding my phone. The trick that I have learned in order to deal with these things, is simply to ignore them. None of these things are going away, so there's no point in drawing attention to them.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

On the topic of people trying to fix things on their own (or rather, NOT trying)... Always amazes me too how many "issues" can be completely solved with a REBOOT


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## Ampersandthemonkee (Dec 13, 2011)

+1 to the OP!

I'm a relative newb and was experiencing some battery/lag issues. Did I whine on the forums? Write the devs a note? Even ask for help here? NOPE!

I took the opportunity to educate myself and troubleshoot. Using only Google and the search function on this site I found answers to all of my questions. The answer was all my rom flashing and unclean installs had left alot of garbage lying around. So I installed the toolkit. Took the phone to stock and flashed only my fave rom/ kernel. Then tweaked a bit with the toolkit. Result? 17+ hours on battery and a buttery smooth phone.

From one newb to another, do your homework.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

Ampersandthemonkee said:


> +1 to the OP!
> 
> I'm a relative newb and was experiencing some battery/lag issues. Did I whine on the forums? Write the devs a note? Even ask for help here? NOPE!
> 
> ...


Gold star and a cookie for this man


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## thewahlrus (Jun 17, 2011)

Now that you mention it, pull down weather on aokp 26 says "partly cloudy" when its obviously partly sunny outside, going back to my axiom nandroid.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## BlackDobe (Sep 2, 2011)

Oh yeah. I think Adrynalyne did do release a kernel (or ROM) that was the same and then punked everyone in the Thunderbolt thread.


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## NatemZ (Jun 13, 2011)

SpinningHook said:


> Despite my deep disdain for things like tapatalk sigs, emoticons, "l33t" speak, and the phrase, "lol" (including it's variations and when people use it reference to their own joke), I continue to read these forums, in order to continue moding my phone. The trick that I have learned in order to deal with these things, is simply to ignore them. None of these things are going away, so there's no point in drawing attention to them.


lmao +1 lol



































I agr33


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

MAPS KEEPS RUNNING IN BACKGROUND FIX PLOX GOING BAK TO OLD VERSION UNTIL U FIX


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## miketoasty (Jun 10, 2011)

BlackDobe said:


> Oh yeah. I think Adrynalyne did do release a kernel (or ROM) that was the same and then punked everyone in the Thunderbolt thread.


I'm pretty sure I remember this. He took a lot of flack for it but the results he got were amazing, and showed exactly what this thread is pointing out.


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## nunyazz (Jun 6, 2011)

Ohh.. and the post that just says "Thanks" instead of hitting the thanks button.


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## cubsfan187 (Jul 17, 2011)

BlackDobe said:


> Oh yeah. I think Adrynalyne did do release a kernel (or ROM) that was the same and then punked everyone in the Thunderbolt thread.


I think more devs should take this approach at least once. I for one, would love to see it! In the time it takes to read the OP of any rom/kernel/theme/mod thread, you already saved yourself time by doing it the right way the first time.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

nunyazz said:


> Ohh.. and the post that just says "Thanks" instead of hitting the thanks button.


Or "+1"


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## Rodeojones (Jun 13, 2011)

I love the rant.


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## centerfinger (Jan 12, 2012)

Do I need to wipe data before flashing?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## JBirdVegas (Jun 11, 2011)

Lol funny because it is true. My fav is "I can't get to work and that is a deal breaker. I'll try again when you fix"

Ahem, we didn't break the app. Clearly something else is going on there. No one writes a feature to remove functions or compatibility it is just silly.


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## Ampersandthemonkee (Dec 13, 2011)

2defmouze said:


> Gold star and a cookie for this man


om nom nom cookie.

Seriously though, I go through this with my mom. She love gadgets but has no idea how to use them. I tried many times sitting down with her and going over it (the gadget) with her until finally on my 4th or 5th time I just told her to play with it. You remember the answers you find for yourself.


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## RMarkwald (Oct 19, 2011)

miketoasty said:


> I'm pretty sure I remember this. He took a lot of flack for it but the results he got were amazing, and showed exactly what this thread is pointing out.


Haha!

I own the HTC Flyer (trying to sell, shameless plug), and since it isn't very active here on Rootzwiki I would frequent...

Anyways, one of the main guys over there responsible for a TON of great breakthroughs with S-OFF and modded HBOOT's did the same thing to a user in a thread. He posted a flashable zip file to "fix" the issue, so when I looked at it to see what he was fixing, there was the META-INF folder but nothing else...I thought I missed something.

Clearly trying to prove his point that the user didn't wipe or clear cache from the app, all of a sudden things "started working again"... I got a good laugh out of that one.

My other favorite is "Man battery life on this is sick or terrible, I'm only getting 8 hours blah blah blah..." when the kernel/ROM has only posted live for about one hour.

We've all been noobs, but reading doesn't hurt anyone. If it isn't found doing a Google search, chances are only a small handful of people have the issue. I'll defer to knowledge given to me by an instruction I had once: If things are working fine BEFORE you take things apart and when you put them back together you have all of these issues...it's something YOU did that caused these new problems.


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## m1ghtysauc3 (Jul 24, 2011)

I believe Kejar did a placebo type thing once with a "battery fix." He posted a file which done absolutely nothing, then he came clean with what he done and plastered it here and on Twitter. It was pretty funny. However, I could have easily fallen for it because I was VERY new to ROMS and root at the time (I was using ROM Manager way more than I should have been). I'm still not an expert and I screw up. In fact, I made the mistake of installing a theme over the top of another theme the other day. I knew better, but I just wasn't thinking. The thing I hate to see is people complaining about their Quadrant scores. There's a thread around here somewhere which is nothing but a guy complaining about this. Every time I see this, I want to drown puppies in mushroom gravy.


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## WhataSpaz (Feb 20, 2012)

I can't stand how people complain about battery when they just flashed a kernel. The thing won't be live for 12 hours, not even enough time for it to sink into your rom and people will say they're draining faster than the old one.


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## dadsterflip (Jul 16, 2011)

BlackDobe said:


> Oh yeah. I think Adrynalyne did do release a kernel (or ROM) that was the same and then punked everyone in the Thunderbolt thread.


It was a kernel and I remember that lol very interesting test also.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## shadowpunx (Jul 16, 2011)

WhataSpaz said:


> I can't stand how people complain about battery when they just flashed a kernel. The thing won't be live for 12 hours, not even enough time for it to sink into your rom and people will say they're draining faster than the old one.


Yea what she said ..I mean..+1

the day is mine
the night is also mine


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## samsuck (Jul 5, 2011)

Yup, Adreynalyne punked everyone in the Thunderbolt thread. It was funny as hell.

Some people were all like "I'm getting way better battery life now! "


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## Burbot (Dec 29, 2011)

This was a quite a fun read, thanks OP. I really do think the way in which feedback is given in forums is such a great thing, but muddled with all the people who utterly fail to do SIMPLE things like verifying MD5 sums. Much like in the bottom (closer to user end) of the IT industry, users submit tickets BEFORE they've reflected on whether or not they themselves have modified anything, resulting in wasting time and resources because "something isn't working right". It is tough to read through pages and pages of people having endless problems without knowing any of the pertinent info for how to actually provide assistance OR verify that there is a problem at all.
Personally I don't understand people who daily drive multiple roms, and of course, tried EVERY rom/kernel combination; for me I still experiment, but all that would make my phone less of the tool that it is and make it into a really expensive Tamagotchi.


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## TheRealBeesley (Jun 10, 2011)

Jubakuba said:


> Are you a flash-noob?
> Cool. We were all there at one point.
> Learn. Follow. Experiment. You'll pick it up. And don't ever be afraid to ask for help.
> You aren't my demographic here.
> ...


This has already been done. Adrynalyne made 2 "different" kernels for the HTC Thunderbolt. Kernel A, and Kernel B. The thread went on for DAYS with people flaming each other as to why which one was better than the other.

Then he made the announcement that they were both the same EXACT kernel and made everyone in the thread look like morons, and proving your theory at the same time.

Funny you posted about it... thanks for memories of how funny that post was. lol

Edit: I now see other people already wrote about Adrynalynes punk. Sorry for multi posting


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

TheRealBeesley said:


> This has already been done. Adrynalyne made 2 "different" kernels for the HTC Thunderbolt. Kernel A, and Kernel B. The thread went on for DAYS with people flaming each other as to why which one was better than the other.
> 
> Then he made the announcement that they were both the same EXACT kernel and made everyone in the thread look like morons, and proving your theory at the same time.
> 
> ...


- People who don't read the whole thread, or even last couple pages, before chiming in...

 just playing! 
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## mech_egr (Oct 18, 2011)

I think a corollary to this can be found in app reviews. So often I see people rating 1 star and complaining about the app not working with some new ROM/Version of Android/Broken feature. Most dev's are more than happy to help if you message them, and the fact that their app won't work on your custom ROM is in no way their fault.

I think the worst I've seen lately is for the game Sentinel3. It was a pay game that was widely bought during google's 10 cent sale. One update they had brought a second full length campaign that could be bought as an in app purchase and people went ballistic with the 1 star reviews claiming that they already bought the app once, even though there was no obligation to buy and content was doubled. I'm sure no one would have complained if they released it as a stand alone instead of an in app purchase but what are you going to do...


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## zathus (Jan 2, 2012)

Anyone else having trouble reading the op? I was able to read v12 but for some reason I can't read v14. V10 gave my eyes the least amount of strain though.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

Does this build fix the "INSERT RANDOM AND COMPLETELY VAGUE ISSUE NOBODY ELSE IS HAVING BUT MAKE IT SOUND LIKE COMMONPLACE" issue??

i.e. ... does this version fix the reboots?? is wifi fixed this build? did you fix bluetooth voice dial bug in new rom??


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## yarly (Jun 22, 2011)

mech_egr said:


> I think a corollary to this can be found in app reviews. So often I see people rating 1 star and complaining about the app not working with some new ROM/Version of Android/Broken feature. Most dev's are more than happy to help if you message them, and the fact that their app won't work on your custom ROM is in no way their fault.


In my experience as an app developer, market comments are only slightly better than youtube ones as far as being insightful and coherent. Worst yet is many seem to be under the impression that developers can contact them directly from their review comments or give them feedback in line with the comment (we can't). Then you have ones that complain about permissions when the permissions are explained in the summary and there's nothing you as a developer can really do, because you need that permission and it's Google's fault for making the way permissions work for users so scary looking and broken.

Then as you say, you have ones complaining about the app not working on their "bleeding edge" totally unsupported ROM or their device that still runs android 1.6 from 4 years ago. Worst one I saw was someone complaining that an app did not work on the very unstable/alphaish ICS for the desire HD. My friend has a desire and I can say that ROM barely works. However, this guy expects a developer to own every device and load every random ROM onto it and test it. If you run something other than stock, a user should know not everything will always work and not blame developers. However, many of us will support popular ROMs like Cyanogen because it's in our interest to do so and we also use those ROMs ourselves.

You would also be shocked and surprised at some of the very rude comments in emails you get from people on the market too for things you give out for free. If a user sends me an angry/rude email for an app I make totally for free, you can be sure their email is quickly deleted. Typically if someone is that angry, it's usually their fault anyways and are just trying to deflect the blame onto someone else (i.e. the poor developer). Developers like constructive/honest feedback and suggestions, but they don't like being brown beaten when they're doing it for free. It's nearly enough to say forget it, unless you're actually selling the application.


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## partychick64 (Nov 5, 2011)

I agree like it's ok to ask the question if you absolutely can't find the answer; I mean you gotta do your research otherwise how are you ever gonna learn. People SHOULD NOT mess with there phones if they don't know what or how to do it. I also agree there is to many threads about battery you got to let it sink in; it's not gonna be great the first day or two. I mean things don't magically work that fast. People also NEED to understand every phone is different so some kernels may work and others won't so you just got to keep trying and flashing right. Nice rant I agree completely 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## Mikefrostlpn (Jun 7, 2011)

I love this thread. I love everything about this thread. This thread should be hoisted on the shoulders of the people of rootzwiki and paraded all throughout the other forums.


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## cordell (Sep 8, 2011)

I came from the Sprint Samsung Epic Touch 4G <-----can we get a longer title! Everyday a new thread would pop up about some n00b who downloaded a International leaked version of ICS from some blog and flashed it via Odin to their ET4G and now nothing works, radios and mounting to PC. They provide the link to the blog and it clearly states for International version only, yet they do it anyway. Then they make a thread asking how to make their phone into a non powering on brick, so they can "trick" sprint into giving them a FREE replacement! Yeah, I know....

Oh and there should be a law about posting screenies of your battery stats! I am so over looking at 4 out of 10 posts containing images of battery stats!


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## cvbcbcmv (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm not saying I freak out with flash noobs god I hate those! I've been through 4 android devices, including a droid charge which is a freaking bitch to get stuff on, so I got this shit down now.










I do however disagree with saying one build is awesome. Devs can add butter. Don't believe me? Check out DT's take on AOKP... it's crazy.


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## litso (Jun 7, 2011)

I don't think anyone here is saying that you can't proclaim one ROM or kernel is working better or worse than another. The beef here is that people do so without any kind of empirical evidence. People are prone to flashing the latest and greatest then reporting their results, positive or negative immediately.

If you have a problem with a new build, there is a good chance an app or setting that YOU have installed or tweaked is causing. Maybe you think that the new ROM you're running is so awesome because its the first time you've done a full wipe in 6 months, in which case just about any ROM is going to be way smoother. I think if everyone would do some troubleshooting and legitimate testing before they run to the forums to scream about the latest build we'd all be a little better off.

Honestly you can't give a truly solid report on a ROM or kernel until you have run it for a week or so, and with the current rate of development on the GNex people seldom last that long on a single release.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

Thread needs to be stickied.

Thread needs to be made part of a separate TOS agreement people must read when joining the site.


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## nunyazz (Jun 6, 2011)

I think I will just post a link to this thread for all future violators... lol
Maybe they will get the hint. (probably not)


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## xmike (Jun 29, 2011)

I just wish 2 things: 1) people would read the OP before flashing or asking. 2) they'd stop posting pictures of battery stats.


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## Schoat333 (Jun 14, 2011)

I don't mind answering noob questions, if they are asked prior to making a mistake. I hate answering them after a mistake was made tho.

IMO, if you read all of the instructions, and are still unsure, ask before doing anything.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

xmike said:


> I just wish 2 things: 1) people would read the OP before flashing or asking. 2) they'd stop posting pictures of battery stats.


Lol yes.. Every time a picture is posted of battery stats or benchmark scores, an angel gets a knife jammed through its jugular.

Sent from my AOKP AXI0M GNEX using Tapatalk


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## partychick64 (Nov 5, 2011)

2defmouze said:


> Lol yes.. Every time a picture is posted of battery stats or benchmark scores, an angel gets a knife jammed through its jugular.
> 
> Sent from my AOKP AXI0M GNEX using Tapatalk


You sir are hilarious and its so true

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## doublea500 (Dec 22, 2011)

2 comments about this.

1. Search up placebo effect. that is what your trying to say.

2. Changelogs...


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## Jubakuba (Sep 8, 2011)

doublea500 said:


> 2 comments about this.
> 
> 1. Search up placebo effect. that is what your trying to say.
> 
> 2. Changelogs...


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## Shiftyshadee (Jun 7, 2011)

One of my absolute favorites is "why is this ROM better than that ROM"? Or better yet "how's the battery life on this ROM"?

Battery monitor screenshots take the pet peeve cake though AFAIC

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## Oman0123 (Oct 1, 2011)




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## WhataSpaz (Feb 20, 2012)

^ hahaha love this


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## davey11 (Jul 14, 2011)

Imma NOOB...U guys r meannn.

Where's me swagger button?


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## mcp770 (Jun 11, 2011)

2defmouze said:


> Lol yes.. Every time a picture is posted of battery stats or benchmark scores, an angel gets a knife jammed through its jugular.
> 
> Sent from my AOKP AXI0M GNEX using Tapatalk


Couldn't agree more! Between those and asking about wipes I could literally strangle a kitten.


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## blackadept (Jun 13, 2011)

Well this post made me break my whole posting retirement thing I had going.

All I have to say is two things:

1) your post didn't load at first and so it must be bugged. Clearly it isn't the fact that I had no signal or wifi at the time and therefore was your fault, pls fix. Until then going to go back to reading Clifford The Big Red Dog.

2) you win sir/ma'am.... damn good point and couldn't agree more. Hell, that's why I dropped all my projects tbh. Good read and well put *tip hat*


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## Rythmyc (Jul 23, 2011)

While I don't consider myself a noob at flashing. There are times I "know" I did it right, and I will get a bootloop. I'll download again, flash again, same problem. So i'll post about it. Next day. I'll download, flash and it'll work. I'll look through the files and find things changed. Yes, developers do sometimes upload the wrong file, yes sometimes they don't admit it. Yes, sometimes people will post about it. Now, these situations are VERY rare, but they DO happen.

Let me add, I love this thread. Just wanted to defend the minority! =)


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## Dakota0206 (Oct 16, 2011)

litso said:


> Its not just the Android community. I work in the IT industry (and I'm certain this prevails in many other industries as well) but this is a constant battle I fight with my users. Yea, I understand its my job to know everything about technology, and no I don't expect everyone to know everything, but good grief. As soon as something doesn't go exactly as expected they come screaming to the experts, even if its as simple as waiting another few seconds for an application to load.
> 
> Personally, when I have a question about Android, or anything, the first thing that goes through my head is "I wonder how stupid I'm going to look if I ask this question." That prompts me to DO A LITTLE RESEARCH. Do a Google search, read the OP, skim over the last couple pages of a thread, anything. Someone else has had your problem, and they've put it on the internet. You can find the answer to 99% of the questions you may have in your entire life on any subject just by doing a Google search. It takes less time than it would to ask someone else and wait on a response, and you better yourself for having found the answer on your own.
> 
> Once again, I don't expect everyone to be an expert on everything. There are plenty of things that I know nothing about. In that case, ask a question and get some help if its too overwhelming for you right now. But when you ask that question, be humble, open minded, and appreciative of those that try to help you. Do everything in your power to help others help you (that means being descriptive, using a little punctuation, etc). Even if the advice someone gives is incorrect be appreciative that they took the time to try (unless they were being intentionally malicious).


As someone that owns a tech support business, has managed small business IT support groups, and has worked in IT departments of fortune 100 companies... I don't understand why techs are so frustrated with novice users. This is why you have a job. If you can't except that then you need a new line of work.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Galaxy Nexus.


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## yarly (Jun 22, 2011)

Dakota0206 said:


> As someone that owns a tech support business, has managed small business IT support groups, and has worked in IT departments of fortune 100 companies... I don't understand why techs are so frustrated with novice users. This is why you have a job. If you can't except that then you need a new line of work.
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Galaxy Nexus.


Totally agree, if we're talking about the real world where it's one's job to be tech support. However, everyone on the forums is here doing it for free and it's not a requirement for one to use their phone that it needs to be rooted/themed/etc. I'm also sure that only a small minority of us either develop software/hardware for a living or work in some field of IT, but yet many from all walks of life on here still manage to read and learn. I generally think most complex things can be taught just by using the right wording along with related metaphors.

Rooting and installing ROMs is far from building integrated circuits, developing an application or setting up a network of routers/switches and something I think nearly everyone can learn that comes here either with a little help from us or by just reading.

I don't think it's too much to ask people that come on the forums to:

1) have some courtesy (both the ones asking questions and giving the replies)
2) ask questions in a coherent manner (if you natively speak English) that doesn't require 10 replies to just figure out what they were asking. Not everyone here speaks English as their first language and the way some people write makes it hard on those people to read and try to help them (especially if they have to translate it).
3) read and follow the forum rules (I mean ignorance of the law is generally not a defense in real life, since we're currently comparing this to the world outside the internet)
4) read at least the stickied topics in the forum before posting and the initial post of any thread (especially ones for ROMs and Kernels).

Some people are just not aware of where to start reading and those we should point them to where to start. However, some are just rude and actually get defensive when you try to enlighten them to forum etiquette. They generally tend to be the majority of those that people in this thread complain about.

How many people would go and say, take apart their car to put a new engine in it without reading about how to do it first? At the same time, how many will willingly go and flash a radio, kernel or ROM without doing the same? Phones are also expensive devices. Not quite as expensive as car, but more expensive than most other electronics of similar size.


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## litso (Jun 7, 2011)

Dakota0206 said:


> As someone that owns a tech support business, has managed small business IT support groups, and has worked in IT departments of fortune 100 companies... I don't understand why techs are so frustrated with novice users. This is why you have a job. If you can't except that then you need a new line of work.
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Galaxy Nexus.


I'm not your standard disgruntled IT guy. I have no problem helping novice users. I should have clarified a bit more in my post but I was trying to be brief. What I am talking about is when someone sends an email with a huge attachment, then sends a HelpDesk ticket when the email hasn't made it to the recipient after 30 seconds. Or when someone opens an excel file with 80,000 rows of data in it, it doesn't open right away, so they click it again, and again, and again until their computer is completely locked up. These aren't tech support issues, they are common sense issues. My personal favorite:

User: My *insert technology* isn't working!
Me: Ok, lets take a look at it. What exactly is happening?
User: Oh I have to be on a client site in 10 minutes, I don't have time to work on it right now.
Me: Oh, ok, when will you have time to work on it?
User: I've got to have it before I get to the client site.
Me: Ok, then lets take a look.
User: I've got to leave RIGHT NOW for the client site.
Me: *facepalm* I'm not sure what you want me to do...

The second and third paragraphs of my post were really about life in general. I don't understand people who refuse to at least try be self sufficient. And for the record I'm working on getting into another line of work, I hate cleaning up other people's messes .


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## Schoat333 (Jun 14, 2011)

litso said:


> User: My *insert technology* isn't working!
> Me: Ok, lets take a look at it. What exactly is happening?
> User: Oh I have to be on a client site in 10 minutes, I don't have time to work on it right now.
> Me: Oh, ok, when will you have time to work on it?
> ...


This sounds like everyone I work with.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

"Hey can you integrate 'whatever-obnoxious-theme-that-only-me-and-2-other-people-like' or 'some-blacked-out-app' into your rom? I can't take a whole 30 seconds to flash/push it on my own..."

"Hey do you think you can add this feature its great?" --- only to be told the feature is already in there, thanks for reading the OP or taking 3 minutes to search your settings for it....lol


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