# Pulling Ziggy's Kernel



## x02ssmarox

I'm done it and have it working, but can't seem to get wifi working. I pack the bcm4329.ko in the /system/lib/modules folder, signed it, and flashed. Cant get it working. I've heard a few people here that have already done this, and am curious if you could help?


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## poontab

Moved to Thunderbolt general. Development sections are for releases only.


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## x02ssmarox

sorry mods


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## icanhazdroid

"x02ssmarox said:


> I'm done it and have it working, but can't seem to get wifi working. I pack the bcm4329.ko in the /system/lib/modules folder, signed it, and flashed. Cant get it working. I've heard a few people here that have already done this, and am curious if you could help?


Only thing that ever worked for me was using the kitchen and rebuilding the entire rom


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## x02ssmarox

icanhazdroid said:


> Only thing that ever worked for me was using the kitchen and rebuilding the entire rom


 so making an update.zip never worked for you?


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## icanhazdroid

"x02ssmarox said:


> so making an update.zip never worked for you?


Yeah the wifi always broke


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## Ericsch333

You need to split the boot.img and pull the zimage from that. Also, the bcm from /system/lib/modules.

if you used the zimage and not the boot.img and the bcm and sequins from the ROM you pulled the kernel from, you should have no issue. The modules are kernel specific and control WiFi.


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## x02ssmarox

Ericsch333 said:


> You need to split the boot.img and pull the zimage from that. Also, the bcm from /system/lib/modules.
> 
> if you used the zimage and not the boot.img and the bcm and sequins from the ROM you pulled the kernel from, you should have no issue. The modules are kernel specific and control WiFi.


I'm sorry, sequins? I unpacked the boot.img in the kitchen, and re-packed the zImage into a new boot.img using the ramdisk from the kernel the ROM I'm using came with. Then used the the AnyKernel-updater, and bcm4329.ko from /system/lib/modules from the same ROM I used the ramdisk from.


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## OnlyZuul

Could someone post a zip of Ziggy's kernel that you can flash in recovery, for us noobs?


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## x02ssmarox

OnlyZuul said:


> Could someone post a zip of Ziggy's kernel that you can flash in recovery, for us noobs?


actually no, he's explicity requested that nobody do that. He's being greedy with this source code.


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## Ericsch333

I will not post it


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## Ericsch333

I have to look where the the other file is i am not home it took me awhile to. Find it. But dt helped me


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## x02ssmarox

[quote name='Ericsch333']I have to look where the the other file is i am not home it took me awhile to. Find it. But dt helped me[/] I just re-read what you wrote earlier, and are you saying to not re-pack the zImage+ramdisk to a new boot.img ?


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## x02ssmarox

Ok so I got it to work with WiFi finally. I must have been mixing up the bcm4329.ko files. But the whole reason for doing this was to correct the camera orientation in video chat. That didn't do it. Should it have?


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## Ericsch333

Which rom


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## sonami

"x02ssmarox said:


> Ok so I got it to work with WiFi finally. I must have been mixing up the bcm4329.ko files. But the whole reason for doing this was to correct the camera orientation in video chat. That didn't do it. Should it have?


If its one of his new ones

Sent from my TBolt using my f***cking thumbs...


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## x02ssmarox

Ericsch333 said:


> Which rom


I'm on the latest Shift3dS3ns3, and also tried on Uber PR3


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## hrdnhvy

x02ssmarox said:


> I'm on the latest Shift3dS3ns3, and also tried on Uber PR3


What was wrong with the video chat in uber pr3? Was it upside down? Mine has always been right in uber pr3.


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## x02ssmarox

hrdnhvy said:


> What was wrong with the video chat in uber pr3? Was it upside down? Mine has always been right in uber pr3.


Yea when using Skype the other user says I'm upside down when I'm holding my phone in portrait, and when using G-Talk it is 90 degress counter clockwise when holding in portrait.


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## Jaxidian

x02ssmarox said:


> actually no, he's explicity requested that nobody do that. He's being greedy with this source code.


Ignore my mod status for a minute. Consider me an average Joe for this post. *Rootzwiki's official opinion on this specific topic is not what I'm posting here but more a personal observation*...

See this partial quote (source):



> The GNU General Public License is a free, copyleft license for software and other kinds of works.
> 
> The licenses for most software and other practical works are designed to take away your freedom to share and change the works. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change all versions of a program--to make sure it remains free software for all its users. We, the Free Software Foundation, use the GNU General Public License for most of our software; it applies also to any other work released this way by its authors. You can apply it to your programs, too.
> 
> When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things.
> 
> To protect your rights, we need to prevent others from denying you these rights or asking you to surrender the rights. Therefore, you have certain responsibilities if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it: responsibilities to respect the freedom of others.
> 
> For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.
> 
> Developers that use the GNU GPL protect your rights with two steps: (1) assert copyright on the software, and (2) offer you this License giving you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify it.


Of course there is much more to the GPL than what I've quoted here, so this may be taking it out of context. However, I did want to point this out to anybody who is curious what the GPL says about redistribution. Does this mean that you can redistribute Ziggy's kernel without fear of retribution? I dunno, go get yourself a lawyer. But please educate yourself on the GPL if you want to be informed.

That link is a great way to begin said education - check it out!


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## x02ssmarox

Jaxidian said:


> Ignore my mod status for a minute. Consider me an average Joe for this post. *Rootzwiki's official opinion on this specific topic is not what I'm posting here but more a personal observation*...
> When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish),* that you receive source code* or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things.


 The issue here, is that we have not received source code, therefore cannot redistribute.


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## sniperkill

"x02ssmarox said:


> actually no, he's explicity requested that nobody do that. He's being greedy with this source code.


Yeah, reminds me of the Herver days. Don't get me wrong, mad props to ziggy, but there's no need to be greedy over something that he got for FREE. Smh


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## 00negative

I feel like we have already been down this road just on a different site.

I would say if you have knowledge of how to pull the kernel for your personal use, enjoy.

Or if someone wants to do a write up explaining how to pull kernels in general, more power to you.

But I would not pull and post someone else's work without their permission. Just a good general guideline period.

Not even going touch on all the GPL and source arguments. The rest of you can argue those points if you want to.


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## dstu03

Just use synergy its a great Rom


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## Ianxcom

I'm not a fan of synergy. I find it too laggy. Also kanged without credit.


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## sonami

"Ianxcom said:


> I'm not a fan of synergy. I find it too laggy. Also kanged without credit.


Gingeritis

Sent from my TBolt using my f***cking thumbs...


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## satseaker

why would you even think of honoring his request when everything he does goes totally against the open source, and using anything that supports how he acts is just a snob nose to it also, if I had it I would post it all over the place!!!

brought to you with limited commercial interuptions


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## Ianxcom

"sonami said:


> Gingeritis
> 
> Sent from my TBolt using my f***cking thumbs...


Gingeritis is smooth.


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## chocoyo00

Use the anykernel.zip from Ziggy, just pull the zimage from the boot image, plus the lib modules from the ROM, place in the correct folders within the anykernel.zip, you can do this within the phone using Astro so that you don't have to sign the zip again, flash and done! Wifi and everything works 

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## Snow02

Technically, since the kernel is being distributed (with gingeritis), with his permission, you are allowed to redistribute it.


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## dstu03

"Ianxcom said:


> I'm not a fan of synergy. I find it too laggy. Also kanged without credit.


Ziggy helps with synergy so if the Rom is kanged why do you want ziggys kernel


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## Ianxcom

I never said I wanted it. Don't get me wrongits a good kernel and I would probably flash it if it was available. I have no problem with using parts of other roms in your own, just give credit.


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## dstu03

"Ianxcom said:


> I never said I wanted it. Don't get me wrongits a good kernel and I would probably flash it if it was available. I have no problem with using parts of other roms in your own, just give credit.


He does... What exactly is stolen from other roms. I don't see it


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## yarly

Snow02 said:


> Technically, since the kernel is being distributed (with gingeritis), with his permission, you are allowed to redistribute it.


 I honestly wouldnt care about respecting the wishes of the kernel maker anyways. ziggy screws everyone over by not releasing the code under GPL like he is supposed to so why give him any respect? If anything I would redistribute it anywhere I can just for spite since he thinks he can ignore the rules of others and then make up his own and want people not to ignore them. When he gets around to playing by the rules, then we can respect his as well. Worst he can do is quit making the kernel, nothing else. If no one else wants to post the compiled kernel, I'll grab it and do it.

The mods he makes to the linux kernel are good and anyone that wants to use it, should. However, I can't really understand why anyone should give him any respect when he asks you not to redistribute the compiled kernel when he refuses to let the code be redistributed.


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## JBO1018

To me the messed up thing is all the source he is building from was provided by HTC/Linux/whoever because they followed the rules. Yet he seems to feel its ok not to follow those same rules. Maybe I misunderstand the whole idea of open source code. I was under the impression when you take the source from the community, and build with it you give back to that community by providing your source. Which in turn helps others out and allows the cycle to continue.


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## yarly

JBO1018 said:


> To me the messed up thing is all the source he is building from was provided by HTC/Linux/whoever because they followed the rules. Yet he seems to feel its ok not to follow those same rules. Maybe I misunderstand the whole idea of open source code. I was under the impression when you take the source from the community, and build with it you give back to that community by providing your source. Which in turn helps others out and allows the cycle to continue.


 Yep, it should be that way and he doesn't own his kernel anymore than google owns it or htc (that is they don't). However, he wants to be a jerk about it so c'est la vie 

Someone with hex rays ARM decompiler and a lot of spare time could reverse it and turn it back into more presentable code though, but that's definitely not me.


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## JBO1018

"yarly said:


> Yep, it should be that way and he doesn't own his kernel anymore than google owns it or htc (that is they don't). However, he wants to be a jerk about it so c'est la vie
> 
> Someone with hex rays ARM decompiler and a lot of spare time could reverse it and turn it back into more presentable code though, but that's definitely not me.


So why is it ok to post ROMs with his kernel included but not his kernel in a stand alone form? I'm NOT taking a shot at anyone. I am sincerely curious about that and if its some sort of loophole or just a bass ackward policy.


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## Ianxcom

"dstu03 said:


> He does... What exactly is stolen from other roms. I don't see it


Ask skyraider. He said there are parts that are straight up copy and paste. I know one thing is the notification pulldown. Maybe more. I changed roms too quick.


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## yarly

JBO1018 said:


> So why is it ok to post ROMs with his kernel included but not his kernel in a stand alone form? I'm NOT taking a shot at anyone. I am sincerely curious about that and if its some sort of loophole or just a bass ackward policy.


 I can only think people just don't know it comes with it is why no one complains.


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## loonatik78

I've seen this Ziggy issue ramble on a few times before. Frankly, I think the guy is an ass and I'll tell you why. Unless you use Synergy and deal with their forum, he's nigh impossible to reach. What really gets my goat with that guy is his "uh... dunno if I wanna be GPL compliant or not" shtick. They guy has no legal right to claim ownership of his work under GPLv2; it's community property and his actions constitute blatant theft from the community. Ziggy has gone from "Don't wanna release my code so no more downloads" to "What the hell! Download away and screw the GPL that's allowed me this hobby!" to "I'm gonna be a freakin NAZI with my kernels and source because... well, because I CAN, and nobody is gonna stop me because I'm ZIGGY!" I think it's a bunch of crap and I'm not sure why his work is allowed to be distributed through ROMs since not one of those devs can provide source for the ROM they're distributing, directly in contradiction to the copy of GPLv2 that's integrated in every ROM I've ever seen (to satisfy the legal requirement a copy of the license be distributed with the work). If someone could answer that, I'd be real interested to know. Until then, I consider him a thief and the ROMs that include his kernel as warez.


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## jdkoreclipse

I've tried to contact Ziggy numerous times, with no answer. My gtalk status is"Ziggy471, please contact me".

I may be showing him way too much respect because he was the one who taught me about kernels, but calling him an ass and a nazi or whatever else he has been called in this thread is wrong. Anyone who would take the time out and teach someone how to do kernels and give them sample code is anything but an ass.

He has been doing this long enough to know the rules, and if he is breaking the rules (after 30 years of Linux kernel development) he must have a better reason than "IM ZIGGY". Im Not saying he is right, I'm just saying that he must have a good reason.

Im really close with Ziggy and virus, so I will try to get some answers as to why he is withholding his code.


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## TheSwaggeR

jdkoreclipse said:


> I've tried to contact Ziggy numerous times, with no answer. My gtalk status is"Ziggy471, please contact me".
> 
> I may be showing him way too much respect because he was the one who taught me about kernels, but calling him an ass and a nazi or whatever else he has been called in this thread is wrong. Anyone who would take the time out and teach someone how to do kernels and give them sample code is anything but an ass.
> 
> He has been doing this long enough to know the rules, and if he is breaking the rules (after 30 years of Linux kernel development) he must have a better reason than "IM ZIGGY". Im Not saying he is right, I'm just saying that he must have a good reason.
> 
> Im really close with Ziggy and virus, so I will try to get some answers as to why he is withholding his code.


If you're really that close with Ziggy then you wouldn't have to be attempting to contact him numerous times with no response back.

I don't have much grounds to talk in this thread because I've never used, let alone seen, these ROMs by Synergy or stuff Ziggy has done. Although, I can tell you that if you take from the community, on what was provided to build (source, tools, guides, contributions, etc) ROMs, and refuse to contribute back so others can work on it too then its an act of greediness and in a form of stealing.

So what if someone takes your source code? They may add to it, tweak it, whatever but. It doesn't mean they get all the credit or their version will be 5 times better. The primary creator of these source codes are the ones who should be getting full credit. If you copy and paste from multiple source code and do nothing else then credit should go out to multpile creators. Not yourself. If you re-wrote the entire source code and made it a lot different from the original then yes, that's you doing the majority of the work but credit still goes out to the original creator for getting you started and you also get credit for re-writing and changing a lot from scrap. Copying and pasting without hardly any code being re-written is not meritting as credit to yourself.

Holding hostage to an open source code, that you did not create to begin with, is wrong. Even tweaking it slightly or copying and pasting and not redistributing it is wrong.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk


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## loonatik78

jdkoreclipse said:


> I've tried to contact Ziggy numerous times, with no answer. My gtalk status is"Ziggy471, please contact me".
> 
> I may be showing him way too much respect because he was the one who taught me about kernels, but calling him an ass and a nazi or whatever else he has been called in this thread is wrong. Anyone who would take the time out and teach someone how to do kernels and give them sample code is anything but an ass.
> 
> He has been doing this long enough to know the rules, and if he is breaking the rules (after 30 years of Linux kernel development) he must have a better reason than "IM ZIGGY". Im Not saying he is right, I'm just saying that he must have a good reason.
> 
> Im really close with Ziggy and virus, so I will try to get some answers as to why he is withholding his code.


I don't think he has ANY reasons, much less good reasons, for acting like he does. He is a thief in violation of federal law. The guy should be prosecuted, not held up as a hero.


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## b16

I have always built the wifi module with the zImage, no problems afterwards.


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## yarly

You can always report him here, for what good it will do. They handle GPL violations and seek to mediate and end them. If enough complain, perhaps they will do something. However, since ziggy is an individual with not much to lose instead of a company, there's probably little chance much will come out of it.



> What can I do if I encounter a GPL violation?
> 
> The gpl-violations.org project keeps track of reported GPL violations in its internal request tracking system. If you want to report an alleged violation, please write to [email protected], and make sure to ``enable --verbose mode'', i.e. include as much details a


http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html


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## jimmydene84

Y don't u guys all stop whining?! Lean to build kernels on ur own, u r not entitled to anything ziggy has done before or will continue to do. It's a free country ppl don't follow the rules everyday...how many of u drive exactly the speed limit everyday?? None! Ur breaking the rules/laws on a daily basis, and u all come onto these forums high and mighty about some stupid cell phone codes?! Grow up!

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## chocoyo00

IMO his kernels are the best. It's not that hard to pull one from a Rom anyways, so why not just learn how? At some point if this beating continues he will move on to bigger better things and we'll lose his work. Really, it's easy to pull them, just use the android kitchen posted at the other site (start's with an X...you know which one) to extract the "zimage" and modules and put them on the anykernel.zip posted by Ziggy himself in the right folders. Flash and done!


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## dstu03

Not to stand up for Ziggy but he hasn't really broken any rules he is not distributing the kernel it is for his use. When its put in a Tom and distributed is when the source should be given.


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## yarly

dstu03 said:


> Not to stand up for Ziggy but he hasn't really broken any rules he is not distributing the kernel it is for his use. When its put in a Tom and distributed is when the source should be given.


Sure looks like he is distributing it himself to me without a ROM. It's also not about being able to pull the compiled kernel from a ROM, it's about ziggy doing what is right and releasing the source under the agreement anyone that downloads the Linux Kernel source is supposed to abide by (though obviously many do not). Without source, there would far less android modding going on and not nearly as useful.


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## loonatik78

jimmydene84 said:


> Y don't u guys all stop whining?! Lean to build kernels on ur own, u r not entitled to anything ziggy has done before or will continue to do. It's a free country ppl don't follow the rules everyday...how many of u drive exactly the speed limit everyday?? None! Ur breaking the rules/laws on a daily basis, and u all come onto these forums high and mighty about some stupid cell phone codes?! Grow up!
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. The GPL explicitly entitles me, you, or anyone else, to anything he has done and may do in the future regarding the Linux kernel. You just don't get it. All he is entitled to is credit, his work belongs to the community, outright. I'm not making an issue out of this because I want his source. I make an issue out of this because the Android and Linux communities are eroded by idiots like Ziggy. Ziggy used the openness of the GPL to obtain his source from Imoseyon. Now that he's got his fix (because he clearly couldn't obtain source how Imoseyon did), he's gonna steal from this community. And you fools that defend his actions are defending the erosion of the Android community and the heart and soul of open source. Way to go!


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## jdkoreclipse

"dstu03 said:


> Not to stand up for Ziggy but he hasn't really broken any rules he is not distributing the kernel it is for his use. When its put in a rom and distributed is when the source should be given.


^^this, to a degree.

And I'm not trying to hold Ziggy up as a hero, I just think that he should be shown more respect than you would show a shitty cm-kang dev or something like that.


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## jimmydene84

6 pages of debate over something as simple as a kernel source code...personally I think ziggys kernels r second to none and am glad I run it everyday in synergy 

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## yarly

jimmydene84 said:


> 6 pages of debate over something as simple as a kernel source code...personally I think ziggys kernels r second to none and am glad I run it everyday in synergy
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


2 pages for me. increase your posts per page setting.

Ziggy is better than someone that just grabs something from someone else's ROM that has no idea how to even go about compiling a kernel or doing something that takes a bit of knowledge and so you can at least respect him for being halfway intelligent. However, he's worse than someone that does that in that he takes something that is always supposed to be community property and keeps it for himself without giving back. At least some kiddie that kangs from someone's ROM is only working with what was licensed to be listed as closed source if the creator chose it to be (under the apache license). Technically that kiddie is doing far less damage to the community, albeit he is still a lamer, but only annoying the one he kanged from, not the entire community (and not breaking the fundamentals of the linux philosophy).

Understandably, the people using the ROM based on his kernel would of course support and not care what ziggy does personally and perhaps consider an attack on him an attack on themselves vicariously. However, I don't think anyone would have a problem with ziggy if he just did what he should be doing, so this is just a debate over ethics, not the man. Is ziggy being ethical in his work? No. What will be done about it? Probably nothing, because those that could do something do not want to waste the time + money.

Also, ziggy could be sued for not posting the code under GPL, since it's a license violation (GPL has been upheld in courts before), but since there's basically no money at stake here, that obviously will not come to pass. Just stating that Ziggy has not done anything wrong and refusing to admit that is silly whether you are a fanboy of his work, average community member or GPL zealot.

Saying that one doesn't like what Ziggy does, then they should make their own kernel is nothing but specious and facetious reasoning. I could say at the same time that if Ziggy doesn't like the rules people made that came before him and put in thousands of hours into a kernel he put 1/100000 of the same time into, then he could make his own from a kernel that has a more permissive license like BSD or another UNIX variant and figure out how to make it work with Android. He's acting like the kid that jumps into a ball game and starts to change the rules after everyone else was playing and having a good time.

I don't see a problem with having this discussion (and debate) as long as we keep it civilized and don't start resorting to calling each other names or curse words. Nothing gets done without discussion and not everyone will always agree with with what is getting discussed, but hearing other viewpoints is a good thing (even if you do not agree with them).


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## loonatik78

"Talk is cheap, show me the code" -Linus Torvalds

The above is an excellent answer to a variety of questions.

I'd like to toss this rhetorical question out there for contemplation regarding Ziggy's work. Is it reasonable to suspect Ziggy's kernels wouldn't be GPL compliant even if he released source code on them? As in, they contain code covered under non-GPL licences. One could make all kinds of wild speculation regarding Ziggy's work. Does he rip off code from copyrighted sources? Does he rip off code from sources inside the DoD? Who knows? It's really anyone's guess what's in there.

I really can't agree with the above poster more. I don't have anything against any of the ROM devs that use his crap, but they don't earn respect points for their choices. It's a shame so few grasp the crime that's being committed here. It's even more shameful that some would defend it. You folks belong on iOS, WP7/8, or BREW.


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## Veridor

+1. I've heard good things about his kernel, but refuse to use it as long as he is in violation of the GPL. Imoseyon was one of the first kernel devs for th TBolt, and his GPL compliance (combined with that of other devs) led to other great kernels now available for TBolt. I'm not telling anyone what to do here, but simply stating my opinion.


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## loonatik78

Imoseyon is where Ziggy got his source. Ziggy seems to be having some issues with lag, too. If you haven't tried Imoseyon's 3.7.0 kernel, you really MUST. It's so responsive it's practically psychic.


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## Veridor

"loonatik78 said:


> Imoseyon is where Ziggy got his source. Ziggy seems to be having some issues with lag, too. If you haven't tried Imoseyon's 3.7.0 kernel, you really MUST. It's so responsive it's practically psychic.


If you mean 3.6.0, yes, that kernel is blazing for me. Just haven't updated my signature yet as I'm on my tab at the car dealership getting work done ;-)


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## loonatik78

No.... I definitely mean 3.7.0. He updated both his AOSP and Sense kernels a night or 2 ago.

edit: Eek... my bad. I didn't look at the AOSP version. You're right.


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## tbhall77

Source code (git) link is at bottom of his web page http://www.ziggy471.com/.

http://git.ziggy471.com/

Last thread I read over on xda complaining about it was it wasn't up to date. If its such an issue to some of you and he is as bad as some of you say then contact the Free Software Foundation.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## loonatik78

tbhall77 said:


> Source code (git) link is at bottom of his web page http://www.ziggy471.com/.
> 
> http://git.ziggy471.com/
> 
> Last thread I read over on xda complaining about it was it wasn't up to date. If its such an issue to some of you and he is as bad as some of you say then contact the Free Software Foundation.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


Your link isn't up to date either. Take a look at it. That stuff is from back in May and it's a completely different branch. That's source for 2.2 kernels.


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## yarly

tbhall77 said:


> Source code (git) link is at bottom of his web page http://www.ziggy471.com/.
> 
> http://git.ziggy471.com/
> 
> Last thread I read over on xda complaining about it was it wasn't up to date. If its such an issue to some of you and he is as bad as some of you say then contact the Free Software Foundation.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


 As mentioned, not up to date and who says I didn't already contact them? 

That's all aside the point though. The discussion is to raise community awareness, since as the thread shows, many have no idea about what is going on.


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## loonatik78

removed.


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## Adrynalyne

yarly said:


> As mentioned, not up to date and who says I didn't already contact them?
> 
> That's all aside the point though. The discussion is to raise community awareness, since as the thread shows, many have no idea about what is going on.


FSF doesn't have time or resources to handle two bit nobodys like ziggy or any hobby dev.

For all the people who support ziggy blindly: Allow me to add this.

Where would we be today if manufacturers pulled the same the crap and didn't release source. Think about it for a while.


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## Adrynalyne

jdkoreclipse said:


> I've tried to contact Ziggy numerous times, with no answer. My gtalk status is"Ziggy471, please contact me".
> 
> I may be showing him way too much respect because he was the one who taught me about kernels, but calling him an ass and a nazi or whatever else he has been called in this thread is wrong. Anyone who would take the time out and teach someone how to do kernels and give them sample code is anything but an ass.
> 
> He has been doing this long enough to know the rules, and if he is breaking the rules (after 30 years of Linux kernel development) he must have a better reason than "IM ZIGGY". Im Not saying he is right, I'm just saying that he must have a good reason.
> 
> Im really close with Ziggy and virus, so I will try to get some answers as to why he is withholding his code.


Are those your words, or his? Because....Linux is 19 (technically 20) years old, and no variant of Unix was ever open source before that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux

Oh and to show the power of open source, I give a gift of historical value.

Kernel source for the original Linux 0.01 kernel from 1992 

http://www.multiupload.com/4XPKGUG67F


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## satseaker

grrrrr...... attack adr attack,people ziggy deserves no respect at all,he can keep his junk all he wants but he shouldnt complain when others take it and use it cause it aint his to start with

brought to you with limited commercial interuptions


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## loonatik78

jdkoreclipse said:


> I've tried to contact Ziggy numerous times, with no answer. My gtalk status is"Ziggy471, please contact me".
> 
> I may be showing him way too much respect because he was the one who taught me about kernels, but calling him an ass and a nazi or whatever else he has been called in this thread is wrong. Anyone who would take the time out and teach someone how to do kernels and give them sample code is anything but an ass.
> 
> He has been doing this long enough to know the rules, and if he is breaking the rules (after 30 years of Linux kernel development) he must have a better reason than "IM ZIGGY". Im Not saying he is right, I'm just saying that he must have a good reason.
> 
> Im really close with Ziggy and virus, so I will try to get some answers as to why he is withholding his code.


Still waiting on the reasoning as to why Ziggy screws the community. I'm gonna guess he's doing exactly what I suggested: being impossible to reach on the subject.


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## Adrynalyne

I have the Linux 0.99 source if anyone wants it as well


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## yarly

Adrynalyne said:


> I have the Linux 0.99 source if anyone wants it as well


LOL, that made my night.

I'm hoping Linus does a version 3.1.4


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## jdkoreclipse

"Adrynalyne said:


> Are those your words, or his? Because....Linux is 19 (technically 20) years old, and no variant of Unix was ever open source before that.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
> 
> Oh and to show the power of open source, I give a gift of historical value.
> 
> Kernel source for the original Linux 0.01 kernel from 1992
> 
> http://www.multiupload.com/4XPKGUG67F


He has told me 30 years. I'm girding he MEANT to say 30 years of programming.


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## loonatik78

jdkoreclipse said:


> He has told me 30 years. I'm girding he MEANT to say 30 years of programming.


Yeah... Probably worked on UNIX systems like my dad did and used to ride a dinosaur to the warehouse it took to contain the computer. I don't really care if he worked on machines with thermionic valves; Ziggy is a thief. I don't have a problem with you, but I will pick a bone with anyone defending Ziggy's cowardly ways. Some of you brag you're running a ROM with Ziggy's "legendary" kernel. I think that's stupid. Why don't you just put in your signature "I'm all for destroying the Open Source community!" I also think that's stupid because I haven't run one of his kernels in the last 3 months that wasn't a world class heap of crap. The one he was dishing out to Virus and Chingy around that time had governors so poorly tuned you could barely type into a field on a web page. And for reasons I can't explain, you can't fix them! His "lagfree" governor is anything but. No matter what I did to that governor, I couldn't get the lag out. A few nights ago I went to Imoseyon's 3.7.0 kernel and found that his smartass acted like it should. In fact, it was so free of lag I was able to adjust the governor to act much more conservatively and STILL see no lag! Where I did have issues was with the swap, but a few tweaks to a script ironed that right out.

I point this out because Imoseyon's kernel (on Sense) should be the choice of those who give a hoot about the GPL. The popularity of Ziggy's kernel, in my opinion, reflects the mindset that ultimately led to the community breakdown at XDA. It's a mindset of "Just gimme the goods; to hell with rules, law, right and wrong, respect, and the community! Just GIMME, GIMME GIMME!!!". It's not the job of mods to weed out this sickness. It's a choice Android users should be making. And if you're content with how Ziggy does business, please move along to WP7 or BlackBerry or iFone. We don't want you or need you.


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## villae81

Can someone explain to me what is an open source community, gpl, and what the hell did this Ziggy character did?


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## loonatik78

villae81 said:


> Can someone explain to me what is an open source community, gpl, and what the hell did this Ziggy character did?


Good question! It's a question a LOT more Android users should be asking. I'm happy to answer...

The Open Source community can be summed up as a community of developers and users that believe in and practice leaving source code open to the end user, and volunteering any source they may alter back to the community in an effort to foster evolution of the code. In effect, it's communal development. GPL stand for General Public License, and is a form of copyleft, as opposed to copyright, of software, and explicitly lays out the legal nature of the material that it addresses. The GPL is the foundation of Open Source.

Android, which is covered under the Apache licence, is powered by the Linux kernel. In order to remain compliant with Apache, compliance with the GPL must be adhered to. Ziggy develops Linux kernels for Android. Under GPLv2, two requirement must be met to develop any Linux kernel. First, source code must be provided upon request, and second, a copy of the GPLv2 must accompany and distribution of Linux. The second condition is met because Android comes with a copy of the GPL in the "About Phone..." section of "Settings". The first condition, providing source code, must be met by the developer.

Ziggy has not released source for any of his kernels in roughly 4 months, and has never released source for the gingerbread branch he's been working on. This puts him wildly outside the legal bounds of the GPL. His actions are criminal in the truest sense of the word. But the greater issue has to do with his theft from the community. The effect the GPL has on Linux is to make the source code legal community property. Nobody has any personal right to it, whether they wrote it or not. Ziggy conducts himself as though it IS his property, to decide who does and doesn't get it, and who's allowed to use it. This is simply wrong. Ziggy KNOWS this. Unfortunately, too few people understand what the GPL is, what the Apache license is, how they've influenced the Android community. In short, there would be no Android development community like we know it if it weren't for the GPL and the Apache licence. AOSP would NEVER have been born.


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## Adrynalyne

^^This.

Defend him all you want but there would be NO Android community without adherence to GPL. None. Zero. Nothing.


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## dstu03

"loonatik78 said:


> Good question! It's a question a LOT more Android users should be asking. I'm happy to answer...
> 
> The Open Source community can be summed up as a community of developers and users that believe in and practice leaving source code open to the end user, and volunteering any source they may alter back to the community in an effort to foster evolution of the code. In effect, it's communal development. GPL stand for General Public License, and is a form of copyleft, as opposed to copyright, of software, and explicitly lays out the legal nature of the material that it addresses. The GPL is the foundation of Open Source.
> 
> Android, which is covered under the Apache licence, is powered by the Linux kernel. In order to remain compliant with Apache, compliance with the GPL must be adhered to. Ziggy develops Linux kernels for Android. Under GPLv2, two requirement must be met to develop any Linux kernel. First, source code must be provided upon request, and second, a copy of the GPLv2 must accompany and distribution of Linux. The second condition is met because Android comes with a copy of the GPL in the "About Phone..." section of "Settings". The first condition, providing source code, must be met by the developer.
> 
> Ziggy has not released source for any of his kernels in roughly 4 months, and has never released source for the gingerbread branch he's been working on. This puts him wildly outside the legal bounds of the GPL. His actions are criminal in the truest sense of the word. But the greater issue has to do with his theft from the community. The effect the GPL has on Linux is to make the source code legal community property. Nobody has any personal right to it, whether they wrote it or not. Ziggy conducts himself as though it IS his property, to decide who does and doesn't get it, and who's allowed to use it. This is simply wrong. Ziggy KNOWS this. Unfortunately, too few people understand what the GPL is, what the Apache license is, how they've influenced the Android community. In short, there would be no Android development community like we know it if it weren't for the GPL and the Apache licence. AOSP would NEVER have been born.


This post should be stickied and put in its own thread


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## jimmydene84

Doesn't matter now...AOSP is dead. Closed source....

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## Ianxcom

Because of honeycomb? Google had a reason for it.


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## jimmydene84

Today is a sad day for android

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## BennyJr

Why is it a sad day?


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## Ianxcom

Elaborate.


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## jimmydene84

http://android.git.kernel.org/

Goes to nowhere now.. source is "unofficially" gone. We will see what happens with it???
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## villae81

"jimmydene84 said:


> http://android.git.kernel.org/
> 
> Goes to nowhere now.. source is "unofficially" gone. We will see what happens with it???
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


Uhh I think that site got hack so its temporarily down for now


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## Morkai Almandragon

Koush and Slayher have both posted that AOSP was now closed source as well as the kernel. I cannot however find anything other than a press release about them testing the code on the sites.

It is hard to say what is going on yet.


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## poontab

Morkai Almandragon said:


> Koush and Slayher have both posted that AOSP was now closed source as well as the kernel. I cannot however find anything other than a press release about them testing the code on the sites.
> 
> It is hard to say what is going on yet.


That was just trolling.


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## Ianxcom

I don't think that really means anything


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## Morkai Almandragon

poontab said:


> That was just trolling.


yeah that is what it seems at least lol


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## loonatik78

Not even Google could decide to make the kernel closed source. They would be dragged into court so fast and have their ass completely handed to them in such a brutal way that it wouldn't even be funny.


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## jdkoreclipse

"loonatik78 said:


> Yeah... Probably worked on UNIX systems like my dad did and used to ride a dinosaur to the warehouse it took to contain the computer. I don't really care if he worked on machines with thermionic valves; Ziggy is a thief. I don't have a problem with you, but I will pick a bone with anyone defending Ziggy's cowardly ways. Some of you brag you're running a ROM with Ziggy's "legendary" kernel. I think that's stupid. Why don't you just put in your signature "I'm all for destroying the Open Source community!" I also think that's stupid because I haven't run one of his kernels in the last 3 months that wasn't a world class heap of crap. The one he was dishing out to Virus and Chingy around that time had governors so poorly tuned you could barely type into a field on a web page. And for reasons I can't explain, you can't fix them! His "lagfree" governor is anything but. No matter what I did to that governor, I couldn't get the lag out. A few nights ago I went to Imoseyon's 3.7.0 kernel and found that his smartass acted like it should. In fact, it was so free of lag I was able to adjust the governor to act much more conservatively and STILL see no lag! Where I did have issues was with the swap, but a few tweaks to a script ironed that right out.
> 
> I point this out because Imoseyon's kernel (on Sense) should be the choice of those who give a hoot about the GPL. The popularity of Ziggy's kernel, in my opinion, reflects the mindset that ultimately led to the community breakdown at XDA. It's a mindset of "Just gimme the goods; to hell with rules, law, right and wrong, respect, and the community! Just GIMME, GIMME GIMME!!!". It's not the job of mods to weed out this sickness. It's a choice Android users should be making. And if you're content with how Ziggy does business, please move along to WP7 or BlackBerry or iFone. We don't want you or need you.


I introduced lagfeee to the tbolt, not Ziggy (although its not mine to begin with) .

But anyway, since I can't get in touch with Ziggy I can't defend him.


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## loonatik78

jdkoreclipse said:


> I introduced lagfeee to the tbolt, not Ziggy (although its not mine to begin with) .
> 
> But anyway, since I can't get in touch with Ziggy I can't defend him.


Lagfree seems like a simple solution, and its far better than Ziggy's idea of a smartass, but I Just couldn't get it to behave. After it idled down, there would always be this lag. I adjusted about everything I could, but it was always there. I'm thinking its not the governor, but rather something about the kernel.


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## villae81

"loonatik78 said:


> Good question! It's a question a LOT more Android users should be asking. I'm happy to answer...
> 
> The Open Source community can be summed up as a community of developers and users that believe in and practice leaving source code open to the end user, and volunteering any source they may alter back to the community in an effort to foster evolution of the code. In effect, it's communal development. GPL stand for General Public License, and is a form of copyleft, as opposed to copyright, of software, and explicitly lays out the legal nature of the material that it addresses. The GPL is the foundation of Open Source.
> 
> Android, which is covered under the Apache licence, is powered by the Linux kernel. In order to remain compliant with Apache, compliance with the GPL must be adhered to. Ziggy develops Linux kernels for Android. Under GPLv2, two requirement must be met to develop any Linux kernel. First, source code must be provided upon request, and second, a copy of the GPLv2 must accompany and distribution of Linux. The second condition is met because Android comes with a copy of the GPL in the "About Phone..." section of "Settings". The first condition, providing source code, must be met by the developer.
> 
> Ziggy has not released source for any of his kernels in roughly 4 months, and has never released source for the gingerbread branch he's been working on. This puts him wildly outside the legal bounds of the GPL. His actions are criminal in the truest sense of the word. But the greater issue has to do with his theft from the community. The effect the GPL has on Linux is to make the source code legal community property. Nobody has any personal right to it, whether they wrote it or not. Ziggy conducts himself as though it IS his property, to decide who does and doesn't get it, and who's allowed to use it. This is simply wrong. Ziggy KNOWS this. Unfortunately, too few people understand what the GPL is, what the Apache license is, how they've influenced the Android community. In short, there would be no Android development community like we know it if it weren't for the GPL and the Apache licence. AOSP would NEVER have been born.


I thought kernels behaves differently on different phones ran ziggys on g3d and it was stable as hell the only rebooted I had was when I decided to I put kangbang on cm7 my phone went retarded. And I wanna know what is he exactly stealing if its open source.


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## yarly

villae81 said:


> Uhh I think that site got hack so its temporarily down for now


 Yeah it did earlier this week (all of kernel.org). It's the reason Linus is temporally hosting the Linux Kernel at github.


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## loonatik78

villae81 said:


> I thought kernels behaves differently on different phones ran ziggys on g3d and it was stable as hell the only rebooted I had was when I decided to I put kangbang on cm7 my phone went retarded. And I wanna know what is he exactly stealing if its open source.


A kernel should always perform the same on every device so long as the hardware is the same. There's not a random circuit generator in the hardware, and there's no random code generator in the software. Ziggy is stealing the source code for his kernel from the community. Open Source isn't a one way street, it's a two way street. One lane allows anyone to obtain code and do with it as they please, but the other lane of traffic dictates you share that code with the community. It's not optional. If you're not putting traffic on both the coming and going lanes of the open source highway, you're stealing. But lets say someone says "But Ziggy put his own work into it! It's his time, effort, skill, and experience! Not mine or yours or "the community's!" That would be completely WRONG. When Ziggy obtained code and modified it, he accepted the terms and conditions of GPLv2, and GPLv2 gives him NO LEGAL RIGHTS of ownership to any of his work, but instead clearly identifies the community as the rightful owners of Ziggy's personal work on the Linux kernel. The idea of theft through neglect or lack of action is an alien concept to a capitalistic society where personal property rights are intrinsic to our way of thinking of the world, but it is in fact the case here. Linux isn't capitalist and it respects no man's personal rights. It's communist, in the purest sense. It's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and it's not optional.

I never thought I'd be defending the ideals of communism, but lets face facts, communism does have a use. Strip it of it's 100 years of ugly political rhetoric, and you've got yourself an excellent model for software development. That's what Linux is.


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## villae81

"loonatik78 said:


> A kernel should always perform the same on every device so long as the hardware is the same. There's not a random circuit generator in the hardware, and there's no random code generator in the software. Ziggy is stealing the source code for his kernel from the community. Open Source isn't a one way street, it's a two way street. One lane allows anyone to obtain code and do with it as they please, but the other lane of traffic dictates you share that code with the community. It's not optional. If you're not putting traffic on both the coming and going lanes of the open source highway, you're stealing. But lets say someone says "But Ziggy put his own work into it! It's his time, effort, skill, and experience! Not mine or yours or "the community's!" That would be completely WRONG. When Ziggy obtained code and modified it, he accepted the terms and conditions of GPLv2, and GPLv2 gives him NO LEGAL RIGHTS of ownership to any of his work, but instead clearly identifies the community as the rightful owners of Ziggy's personal work on the Linux kernel. The idea of theft through neglect or lack of action is an alien concept to a capitalistic society where personal property rights are intrinsic to our way of thinking of the world, but it is in fact the case here. Linux isn't capitalist and it respects no man's personal rights. It's communist, in the purest sense. It's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and it's not optional.
> 
> I never thought I'd be defending the ideals of communism, but lets face facts, communism does have a use. Strip it of it's 100 years of ugly political rhetoric, and you've got yourself an excellent model for software development. That's what Linux is.


Oh okay now I see basically gpl hands you a piece of paper and pencil and say here do whatever you want with it but whatever you make with it let it be picasso or davinci you have no right to it. But whoever makes the phones can put it in their next product so the android community can pay for it. Or am I misunderstanding what your saying?


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## yarly

villae81 said:


> Oh okay now I see basically gpl hands you a piece of paper and pencil and say here do whatever you want with it but whatever you make with it let it be picasso or davinci you have no right to it. But whoever makes the phones can put it in their next product so the android community can pay for it. Or am I misunderstanding what your saying?


GPL is far more than just android. It encompasses a large portion of the software the runs on linux in general.

GPL says you can take what you want in an "all you can eat," style farmer's market, but anything you prepare as food with what you took, you have to share (for free) with everyone else in the community afterwards IF you intend on distributing it for others to have as well.

Basically that is to prevent someone from selling the software for profit or being selfish. There are those that still sell the software on CDs for people who do not want to download it, but they must also offer the source for free somehow nonetheless.

If you want to read more, check out the wiki on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL


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## Adrynalyne

GPL inures that the source does not go stagnant. People take, and they give back. Its a win-win situation.


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## villae81

"yarly said:


> GPL is far more than just android. It encompasses a large portion of the software the runs on linux in general.
> 
> GPL says you can take what you want in an "all you can eat," style farmer's market, but anything you prepare as food with what you took, you have to share (for free) with everyone else in the community afterwards IF you intend on distributing it for others to have as well.
> 
> Basically that is to prevent someone from selling the software for profit or being selfish. There are those that still the software on CDs for people who do not want to download it, but they must also offer the source for free somehow nonetheless.
> 
> If you want to read more, check out the wiki on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL


Man I'm feeling so ignorant right now but I gotta ask one more ? I'm assuming when you say everybody that includes me you Ziggy phone makers right? So were basicallly paying 600 dollars for paper weight Coz its obvious the os is Google and its open source and under gpl law its free to everybody right?


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## loonatik78

villae81 said:


> Man I'm feeling so ignorant right now but I gotta ask one more ? I'm assuming when you say everybody that includes me you Ziggy phone makers right? So were basicallly paying 600 dollars for paper weight Coz its obvious the os is Google and its open source and under gpl law its free to everybody right?


Android isn't GPL. It's licensed under Apache. It's a more permissive license. I suppose you could say its free, buy I really don't feel like building my own build of Android or a nice UI for it. Or making the equipment myself.


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## villae81

"loonatik78 said:


> Android isn't GPL. It's licensed under Apache. It's a more permissive license. I suppose you could say its free, buy I really don't feel like building my own build of Android or a nice UI for it. Or making the equipment myself.


I didn't say android is gpl I said its open source so it falls under gpl law. You don't like to build your own so you'll pay a company to build you one which is supposedly free is that what your saying ? Lets say Ziggy is that company making this os for your phone would you still rant about him being a thief or not Coz he's got his own pretty logo like HTC Motorola etc.


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## Adrynalyne

open source doesn't = GPL, no.


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## jdkoreclipse

villae81 said:


> I didn't say android is gpl I said its open source so it falls under gpl law. You don't like to build your own so you'll pay a company to build you one which is under the gpl law so it supposedly free is that what your saying ? Lets say Ziggy is that company making this os for your phone would you still rant about him being a thief or not Coz he's got his own pretty logo like HTC Motorola etc.


Android is under Apache, not GPL. Apache is diffrent.

Linux or linux based kernels are undr the GPL. Linux based includes Android monolithic kernels, such as OEM sources android/kernel_common source, or any custom sources (ziggy).


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## yarly

villae81 said:


> I didn't say android is gpl I said its open source so it falls under gpl law. You don't like to build your own so you'll pay a company to build you one which is supposedly free is that what your saying ? Lets say Ziggy is that company making this os for your phone would you still rant about him being a thief or not Coz he's got his own pretty logo like HTC Motorola etc.


 If Ziggy built his own kernel from the ground up (without taking from the linux kernel) or modified a kernel source that used a more permissive license (such as on of the bsd/unix variants which fall under a license similar to the one the Android OS [sans kernel] uses), which would be way too much work), then he could close off everything and give nothing back if he did not feel like it.

HTC, Moto, et al. do not have to give back their modifications to the Android OS source (not to be confused with the kernel), which is modders have to work with the compiled libraries when they mod Sense and other Frameworks that come on the non-nexus phones.


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## villae81

"yarly said:


> If Ziggy built his own kernel from the ground up (without taking from the linux kernel) or modified a kernel source that used a more permissive license (such as on of the bsd/unix variants which fall under a license similar to the one the Android OS [sans kernel] uses), which would be way too much work), then he could close off everything and give nothing back if he did not feel like it.
> 
> HTC, Moto, et al. do not have to give back their modifications to the Android OS source (not to be confused with the kernel), which is modders have to work with the compiled libraries when they mod Sense and other Frameworks that come on the non-nexus phones.


Really? Ha! I guess I misunderstood everything then. When somebody say I got an android phone I automatically assume its open source and nobody will say shit what he does with that phone for example Motorola locking their bootloader nobody can do anyrhing Coz is open source and its their phone their product! Man I'm such a dumbass


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## JBO1018

"villae81 said:


> I didn't say android is gpl I said its open source so it falls under gpl law. You don't like to build your own so you'll pay a company to build you one which is supposedly free is that what your saying ? Lets say Ziggy is that company making this os for your phone would you still rant about him being a thief or not Coz he's got his own pretty logo like HTC Motorola etc.


HTC, Moto, whoever are REQUIRED to release their source for the Linux kernel used in Android for every phone they make. The community tends to be very vocal about this when they are slow about releasing their source. Nothing different is going on here except that Ziggy isn't just being slow about it. He seems to be outright refusing to release his source. Also because Ziggy is not a big profitable corporation he likely won't get in any serious trouble over it like an Android manufacturer would. Not that he shouldn't but that is just the way of the world and it most certainly doesn't make it ok.

When you buy an Android phone you are paying for the hardware, the countless hours that went into developing that hardware, and the specific, typically customized, build of Android that comes with it.


----------

