# If you read ONE article in your life about cell phones, PLEASE, read this one



## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

This covers SO MUCH info that I couldn't/cannot discuss, but should help you understand why phones have secrecy, delays, revisions, software upgrades, Bloatware, etc, etc.

Verizon follows a rather similar process. Please pay attention to the parts regarding testing, leaks, software updates. Maybe a lot of the rubbish that is spewed on forums may subside some if even half the ppl here took the time to read it. It's pretty detailed and spot on accurate....

http://www.engadget....scenes-part-on/

Sorry. I saw the URL and it ended "part on" so i assumed my iPad didn't take the "e" Guess it doesn't actually have it. Fixed.


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## Mellen_hed (Aug 11, 2011)

Oops. Wrong button. Good read, though.


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## msrfx (Sep 28, 2011)

Busted link, goes back to the root of Engadget...


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## Veridor (Jun 10, 2011)

msrfx said:


> Busted link, goes back to the root of Engadget...


Yeah, link's broken.


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## Dem389 (Jun 19, 2011)

I believe this is the article he was trying to link to

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/15/how-an-atandt-smartphone-comes-to-life-behind-the-scenes-part-on/


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## scooby0u812 (Jul 31, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> This covers SO MUCH info that I couldn't/cannot discuss, but should help you understand why phones have secrecy, delays, revisions, software upgrades, Bloatware, etc, etc.
> 
> Verizon follows a rather similar process. Please pay attention to the parts regarding testing, leaks, software updates. Maybe a lot of the rubbish that is spewed on forums may subside some if even half the ppl here took the time to read it. It's pretty detailed and spot on accurate....
> 
> ...


psst... no cuss words. ie i%#d. that is a very good read. thanxs


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## ImRickJamesBit_h (Jul 17, 2011)

scoop0u812 said:


> psst... no cuss words. ie i%#d.


Shoot, Fruit... let me stop before I get banned....

Forum Troll....


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## xlinuxtrancex (Jun 18, 2011)

great find! thanks for sharing.


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

scooby0u812 said:


> psst... no cuss words. ie i%#d. that is a very good read. thanxs


Ja ja, sorry. Work provided, might as well use it....


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

xlinuxtrancex said:


> great find! thanks for sharing.


You're welcome.


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## scooby0u812 (Jul 31, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> Ja ja, sorry. Work provided, might as well use it....


i know. i just like kiddin with folks about that. i work all nite and get really bored. oh yeah. i.m. check


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## ImaComputa (Sep 8, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> This covers SO MUCH info that I couldn't/cannot discuss, but should help you understand why phones have secrecy, delays, revisions, software upgrades, Bloatware, etc, etc.
> 
> Verizon follows a rather similar process. Please pay attention to the parts regarding testing, leaks, software updates. Maybe a lot of the rubbish that is spewed on forums may subside some if even half the ppl here took the time to read it. It's pretty detailed and spot on accurate....
> 
> ...


What rubbish? It's a buzz word filled article that doesn't really debunk any myths and the writer only speculates about the carriers getting compensated for bloatware. The only reason the AT&T guy gives is that it's because they're not re-downloadable apps? Well then put them on the market then and make them deletable. It's fairly obvious the carriers get compensated for their stupid bloatware crap. I also LOLed at them admitting that they throw crap at the wall and hope it sticks(ala the Pantech pocket). The AT&T guy said they don't want you to buy new phones? Really? So then why do they drag their feet on OS updates even when the hardware is plenty capable? For kicks? How many "unsupported" phones run 3rd party ports of GB and ICS just fine? Oh, you want official ICS on your year old phone? Just buy our super new phone and extend your contract by 2 more years!


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

ImaComputa said:


> What rubbish? It's a buzz word filled article that doesn't really debunk any myths and the writer only speculates about the carriers getting compensated for bloatware. The only reason the AT&T guy gives is that it's because they're not re-downloadable apps? Well then put them on the market then and make them deletable. It's fairly obvious the carriers get compensated for their stupid bloatware crap. I also LOLed at them admitting that they throw crap at the wall and hope it sticks(ala the Pantech pocket). The AT&T guy said they don't want you to buy new phones? Really? So then why do they drag their feet on OS updates even when the hardware is plenty capable? For kicks? How many "unsupported" phones run 3rd party ports of GB and ICS just fine? Oh, you want official ICS on your year old phone? Just buy our super new phone and extend your contract by 2 more years!


Ports are not acceptable to a carrier. Ports dont ever run the same as a straight build, done RIGHT. Sraight up. HACKS are not acceptable to a carrier. You fail to put things in perspective, but of course since you're not left holding the bag if new bugs crop up or crap doesn't run as smooth on a new build, you wouldn't bother to know/care. They explained why they drag their feet, either accept it or don't, and move on.

Carriers don't make apps, so how would they be compensated for something they didn't create???? The devs do, and if anything, THEY would be paying carriers to get their stuff on there. Your clear lack of understanding on this matter is all the convincing I need to see that you typed a lot of #fail. Sounded good, but fail is still #fail.

Last I checked, it wasn't a carrier that gave consumers a BS excuse that certain HTC phones like the TBolt wouldn't get Sense 3.0 (despite it running just fine), that was....wait for it....oh yea, HTC....your finger pointing for features being stripped out of updates is at best, at least partly misdirected. It's not just carriers that decide these things.

Name a phone that runs ICS just fine, with a sloppy, Emulated port. How about one that has most of the hardware working on it????

Say what you like, but no one, I repeat, no one, has ever done that before, let the public in on how phones are ACTUALLY made. And with people like you accusing them of pretty much lying, I don't see why they would ever again. Im content with the small number of us who know how a phone gets made, and all the "tinners" in the world to believe whatever fits your opinion of the company in question.


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## scooby0u812 (Jul 31, 2011)

hmmm. i was wondering how long that was goin to take


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## ImaComputa (Sep 8, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> Say what you like, but no one, I repeat, no one, has ever done that before, let the public in on how phones are ACTUALLY made. And with people like you accusing them of pretty much lying, I don't see why they would ever again. Im content with the small number of us who know how a phone gets made, and the rest of you "tinners" to believe whatever fits your opinion of the company in question.


All I saw were lots of buzz words with an overview of the design process and it went exactly like I thought it did.


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## scooby0u812 (Jul 31, 2011)

ImaComputa said:


> A few devs working in their spare time releasing a port that works when a huge company can't = you failing to put things into perspective. Who said anything about them rolling out OTA hacked updates? It is obviously just a proof of concept. A dedicated team working for a big company with all the right tools should be able to knock that out easily. They didn't explain anything. The AT&T guy didn't even mention OS updates so where do you get "they explained why they drag their feet"?
> 
> Ummm that's how marketing works? Why is it so hard to believe they get paid by EA to shove NFS up your tushy and not allow you to delete it? The article even says AT&T'S *APP* TEAM works closely with the development companies so I think you #failed at reading or are trolling/working for AT&T?
> 
> ...


 if by chance you mean the miui build of ics that is not without bugs. sorry to tell you that. i tried it. im in no way knocking miui. they have bad tushy builds . just sayin


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## Dem389 (Jun 19, 2011)

ImaComputa said:


> A few devs working in their spare time releasing a port that works when a huge company can't = you failing to put things into perspective. Who said anything about them rolling out OTA hacked updates? It is obviously just a proof of concept. A dedicated team working for a big company with all the right tools should be able to knock that out easily. They didn't explain anything. The AT&T guy didn't even mention OS updates so where do you get "they explained why they drag their feet"
> 
> The DX already has an alpha build after a few weeks built by people in their spare time even with a locked boot loader. Imagine in a few months. Scanning through the forums really fast it looks like the incredible 2 already has one with most stuff working. Hmmmm.


I'm not sure what Roms or Ports you are running, but I haven't found one yet that doesn't have major bugs. The DX has been out for over a year and there isn't a single 3rd Party Rom that can utilize HDMI. For the longest time the Camera didn't work when CM7 came out. I have ran the ICE "port" of MIUI and it is far from fully funtional and it's only the framework. The DINC 2 has a port but the camera gps and bluetooth don't work.

Also, the article had an entire section on OS updates to explain why they drag their feet. You know there was a second part to that article right? You obviously didn't read the article, they explain why they can't "knock out" updates easily. And I quote 

_Just like in the labs [the first time around], when new software is introduced we have to go through the full gauntlet of tests from this end to that end all over again. New software can always introduce new bugs in areas that were fine before, and the last thing you want to do is take a person who's happy with their phone, and they update it and it doesn't work as well anymore. People think with upgrades that they're getting more. You don't want to break anything. That's why we go through the same rigorous testing in these updates, we don't want to have a negative impact on a customer experience._

The article explains they do a ridiculous amount of testing to try and iron out the worst bugs. It's not like most phones aren't updated/maintained by their respective companies for a while anyway. 50% of all Android Devices are running Gingerbread which up until two weeks ago was the most current OS.So clearly they are updating the phones.

You also leave the hardware side of the phone completely out of the argument. Companies are coming out with faster processors, better cameras, better displays, adding HDMI, NFC, etc. So it's not necessarily you want ICS buy our new phone. I have a DX and for me it's you want dual processors, dual cameras, a ridiculous display, NFC buy our new phone cause you can't update hardware.


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## ImRickJamesBit_h (Jul 17, 2011)

ENOUGH!! When you guys type responses longer than three sentences it makes my head hurt. Come on!!! :-D

Sent from my Forum Troll


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## ERIFNOMI (Jun 30, 2011)

Dem389 said:


> I'm not sure what Roms or Ports you are running, but I haven't found one yet that doesn't have major bugs. The DX has been out for over a year and there isn't a single 3rd Party Rom that can utilize HDMI. For the longest time the Camera didn't work when CM7 came out. I have ran the ICE "port" of MIUI and it is far from fully funtional and it's only the framework. The DINC 2 has a port but the camera gps and bluetooth don't work.


You obviously don't have a thunderbolt.







There are less bugs in CM7 for tbolt than stock and it has to make due with a hashed up RIL. That said, I don't see any major bugs in stock or CM7 for the thunderbolt. I can't think of any bugs really but I'm not naive, I'm sure there are some.


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## adamd1169 (Aug 17, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> Ports are not acceptable to a carrier. Ports dont ever run the same as a straight build, done RIGHT. Sraight up. HACKS are not acceptable to a carrier. You fail to put things in perspective, but of course since you're not left holding the bag if new bugs crop up or crap doesn't run as smooth on a new build, you wouldn't bother to know/care. They explained why they drag their feet, either accept it or don't, and move on.
> 
> Carriers don't make apps, so how would they be compensated for something they didn't create???? The devs do, and if anything, THEY would be paying carriers to get their stuff on there. Your clear lack of understanding on this matter is all the convincing I need to see that you typed a lot of #fail. Sounded good, but fail is still #fail.
> 
> ...


Dude, it was still a propaganda article. I think you're man enough to admit that.


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## ImaComputa (Sep 8, 2011)

Dem389 said:


> You also leave the hardware side of the phone completely out of the argument. Companies are coming out with faster processors, better cameras, better displays, adding HDMI, NFC, etc. So it's not necessarily you want ICS buy our new phone. I have a DX and for me it's you want dual processors, dual cameras, a ridiculous display, NFC buy our new phone cause you can't update hardware.


You're right I didn't bring up the hardware side because it was pretty irrelevant to my post.

Why is this in the nexus forum? Because of the delays?


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

scooby0u812 said:


> hmmm. i was wondering how long that was goin to take


Ja ja, yea, I have a life outside of the forums unfortunately. And I'm a workaholic, thus you see me gone for lengths of time, then posting at weird times.


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

ImaComputa said:


> A few devs working in their spare time releasing a port that works when a huge company can't = you failing to put things into perspective. Who said anything about them rolling out OTA hacked updates? It is obviously just a proof of concept. A dedicated team working for a big company with all the right tools should be able to knock that out easily. They didn't explain anything. The AT&T guy didn't even mention OS updates so where do you get "they explained why they drag their feet"?
> 
> Ummm that's how marketing works? Why is it so hard to believe they get paid by EA to shove NFS up your tushy and not allow you to delete it? The article even says AT&T'S *APP* TEAM works closely with the development companies so I think you #failed at reading or are trolling/working for AT&T?
> 
> ...


If you haven't ventured around these forums enough, you'll find people who tell you that the Google team BLATANTLY stole CM7 code for the Window shade's ability to swipe away specific notifications, or that hiring Koush means they are quite obviously looking/using/stealing code from AOSP projects.

Uh, thats NOT how marketing works. Why would you put an app that DOESN'T showcase any of the phone's features on a phone, when you have PLENTY to choose from that do. For what, some money from a publisher ???? Putting the RIGHT apps on a phone will still achieve the monetary compensation, and makes you MORE money by selling MORE phones which in turn give carriers MORE contracts, which is the BREAD AND BUTTER of carriers. You think a 5 dollar app is gonna be MORE important than the HUNDREDS, even THOUSANDS of dollars in revenue guaranteed by a contract you sign ???? You might semi-grasp how marketing works, but you SURELY don't grasp how basic Economics work.

No, the author didn't clarify. The "app team" is a team of people who select/research/recommend apps to be put on the phone. They are NOT coders. Verizon at least, has NO CODERS. No one makes code, they simply buy/rent/lease, whatever. You assumed he meant there is a team of people creating apps, which, there is not. There may be at AT&T, but there isn't at Verizon. How do I know ???? I tried applying for a programming position at Verizon. They have none....

So does that mean you're working for/trolling for #failures with the pile of #fail you wrote????

Again, you're MISSING the point. "An alpha build". A build with "most stuff working" You think a carrier is OK with that ???? "Hey Mr, Customer, I know that WiFi and Bluetooth don't work right now, but you know, its an alpha build, sit tight" Come on buddy, use your noggin.

I get that you're saying its made by hobbyists, but carriers don't like change. The change from GB to ICS is radical, at least graphically. You can embrace it, adapt, relearn, master the learning curve. I can, everyone on here can. Could a 55 year old lady ???? Could a 32 year old man who isn't technologically saavy ???? Could your mother, your father, your grandparents if they all owned a phone that had GB and went to ICS ???? What if they can't, then what ???? What if an app works on GB and doesn't work on ICS, you think they're gonna know like we do, that that's an issue with the APP, and NOT the phone/Verizon ???? YOU and I don't have to worry about this stuff, CARRIERS do. You have a problem with your phone ???? One of our awesome devs probably has a kick arse fix. But what if you're an average user, who doesn't root and isn't into that stuff ???? How do you get your stuff fixed then ????

All you WANTED to see were buzzwords and because you THINK you know some things (some you think, and some you do), you gathered it was what it was, just PR spewed to quiet the masses. Again, THIS is how phones are made. Like it or not, believe it or not. I'm glad they did the article, but now I see why they didn't until now. People like to try and poke holes and complain about whatever they can....


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

scooby0u812 said:


> if by chance you mean the miui build of ics that is not without bugs. sorry to tell you that. i tried it. im in no way knocking miui. they have bad tushy builds . just sayin


My point EXACTLY. The ICS MIUI build for the TBolt works, all the way around. BUT, it TANKS my battery life.

If you're a carrier, and you release an update (that the OEM built obviously) how are you going to explain the batt life going to the crapper to all existing customers of the phone ???? You either try, or you do what carriers do, shove the build back at the OEM, and get them to FIX it, until its where it should be, THEN you start testing it again.


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

ERIFNOMI said:


> You obviously don't have a thunderbolt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Name a bug in the latest .5 official build. I can name a few in AOSP....one of which being the Network location, which CAN BE FIXED by taking the networklocation.apk OUT OF THE OFFICIAL build and being put into AOSP. Irony ????


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

adamd1169 said:


> Dude, it was still a propaganda article. I think you're man enough to admit that.


Do I think its meant to boost carrier confidence and calm the masses clamoring for phones and updates for AT&T, oh yea.

Does it also give you the EXACT layout/design process of how a smartphone is made/tested/updated, complete with dispelling some common myths as to why certain things happen the way they do ???? You betcha. Which is why I posted it.


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

ImaComputa said:


> Oh my. I totally missed the link at the bottom to part 2 haha. I feelz dum. Still doesn't change my opinion about the carriers. CM7GB on the DX has almost no bugs and I wasn't talking about MIUI ICS but the full blown port. You missed my point though. It's not about everything working right off the bat but of the hardware being capable of running it. I'm sure if the devs had all day to spend and the tools(boot loader unlocks, source files, drivers, documentation, etc.) that these companies have then they could easily knock things out like HDMI. It sounds like a lot of the testing goes towards their crapware like moto blur because the article mentions that a lot. Regardless the DX will never officially get ICS(even though it is capable) and that just solidifies my point of the carriers purposefully dragging their feet on updates so they can sell more phones and upgrades.
> 
> You're right I didn't bring up the hardware side because it was pretty irrelevant to my post.
> 
> Why is this in the nexus forum? Because of the delays?


Why would anyone bother trying to optimize ICS for the DX to make it run as smooth as the next phone would when you can simply make it work with the DX2 with WAY more horsepower ???? Would it run on the DX ???? Yea. Is it up to snuff with the DX2 or the Nexus, or the Rezound (when it gets it) or the RAZR (when it gets it) ???? Nope. Will it ever ???? Nope. THAT'S why its not done. Also, you realize that ICS brings hardware acceleration, which means any phone OTHER than the Nexus would have to have drivers modified/rewritten for ICS. Again, why would you do that on a device thats nearly 2 years old ????

I put it on this board because I've heard some WHACKY theories as to why the Nexus is delayed, why they don't update phones, why Steve Jobs and Verizon are the devil, etc etc. I would hope it would educate more people. But no, it just makes people believe what they wanna believe anyway. It saddens me really.


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## ERIFNOMI (Jun 30, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> Name a bug in the latest .5 official build. I can name a few in AOSP....one of which being the Network location, which CAN BE FIXED by taking the networklocation.apk OUT OF THE OFFICIAL build and being put into AOSP. Irony ????


I don't have a problem with network location. I did at one time but that was this summer. Maybe they've fixed it.

And your other post saying Google stole from CM:
CM is open source just like AOSP. That's the whole idea.


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## scooby0u812 (Jul 31, 2011)

ERIFNOMI said:


> I don't have a problem with network location. I did at one time but that was this summer. Maybe they've fixed it.
> 
> And your other post saying Google stole from CM:
> CM is open source just like AOSP. That's the whole idea.


i see your point in a way on cm7. but.... when a big corp (such as google) takes open source then turns it into monitary gains is a different story. to me atleast that is theft.


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## ImaComputa (Sep 8, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> All you WANTED to see were buzzwords and because you THINK you know some things (some you think, and some you do), you gathered it was what it was, just PR spewed to quiet the masses. Again, THIS is how phones are made. Like it or not, believe it or not. I'm glad they did the article, but now I see why they didn't until now. People like to try and poke holes and complain about whatever they can....


There WERE buzzwords everywhere. It's engadget ffs. Stuff like innovation, groundbreaking, responsibility, sacred, honor, lifetime relationship, etc. are straight out of marketing and advertising. I actually thought it was interesting but you basically posted that people on rootz spew bullshit and made it sound like nobody here knows a thing about the telco industry.


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## ImaComputa (Sep 8, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> Again, why would you do that on a device thats nearly 2 years old ????


Again, because tons of people have them, it's plenty capable, and not everybody wants to BUY a new phone and replace their perfectly good device when their current one is capable of handling it.


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## Dem389 (Jun 19, 2011)

ImaComputa said:


> Again, because tons of people have them, it's plenty capable, and not everybody wants to BUY a new phone and replace their perfectly good device when their current one is capable of handling it.


You don't have to buy a new phone if you don't want to. It's not as if the phones stop working after a year or two. The carriers are not forcing you to buy a new phone after a year or two, people are choosing to do so. It would be one thing if phones were just crapping out really quick, but they aren't. I know people who couldn't care less about what their phone does as long as it makes calls and they keep the same ones for 5 years at a time.

This is how technology works. Something new and better comes out every couple of months. New technology comes out and companies come out with new phones to take advantage of the new tech. You can't expect them to constantly update older phones it would require a ridiculous amount of manpower.

For the most part people have no idea about the different operating systems anyway. My friend has a DX and I updated him to Gingerbread about a month ago because he had no idea there was a new OS out. The majority of users out there aren't like us and don't feel the need to have the cutting edge tech on their phone.


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## ImaComputa (Sep 8, 2011)

Dem389 said:


> You don't have to buy a new phone if you don't want to. It's not as if the phones stop working after a year or two. The carriers are not forcing you to buy a new phone after a year or two, people are choosing to do so. It would be one thing if phones were just crapping out really quick, but they aren't. I know people who couldn't care less about what their phone does as long as it makes calls and they keep the same ones for 5 years at a time.
> 
> This is how technology works. Something new and better comes out every couple of months. New technology comes out and companies come out with new phones to take advantage of the new tech. You can't expect them to constantly update older phones it would require a ridiculous amount of manpower.
> 
> For the most part people have no idea about the different operating systems anyway. My friend has a DX and I updated him to Gingerbread about a month ago because he had no idea there was a new OS out. The majority of users out there aren't like us and don't feel the need to have the cutting edge tech on their phone.


True but that's why we pay them a lot of money and I expect a phone that's not even 2 years old to be updated. Hell, people are still hoping newer devices like the SG2 get it. If a few devs in their spare time can bust things out then surely a billion dollar company can, agreed? Also I think people DO want cutting edge stuff. Everybody now and days is about the latest and greatest.

I'm tired. Is the gnex out yet in the US? I want to go down to Verizon and try it out.


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## scooby0u812 (Jul 31, 2011)

ImaComputa said:


> True but that's why we pay them a lot of money and I expect a phone that's not even 2 years old to be updated. Hell, people are still hoping newer devices like the SG2 get it. If a few devs in their spare time can bust things out then surely a billion dollar company can, agreed? Also I think people DO want cutting edge stuff. Everybody now and days is about the latest and greatest.
> 
> I'm tired. Is the gnex out yet in the US? I want to go down to Verizon and try it out.


Thats a negative. I believe that VZW will be the first in the US to get it. But also be the last in the world to get it.


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## Mexiken (Jul 23, 2011)

Blah blah blah #fail blah blah blah more #fail.

You win. I have better things to do than to argue this. Believe what you want my dude, that's how cell phones get made by their OEM and carriers. Take what you want from it.

For fyi, I use #fail because a hashtag lon Twitter represents a topic. And when I read your post, that's how I felt. The whole topic of your post was fail. You hadn't even read the second part before you started trying to throw everything in everyone's face. We call that #epicfail where I come from....


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## ImaComputa (Sep 8, 2011)

Mexiken said:


> For fyi, I use #fail because a hashtag lon Twitter represents a topic. And when I read your post, that's how I felt. The whole topic of your post was fail. You hadn't even read the second part before you started trying to throw everything in everyone's face. We call that #epicfail where I come from....


Why you can't have a normal thread without getting riled up and posting "fail FAIL #omg #failz" every time is beyond me. Have a nice day.


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