# An Open Letter to Google



## altimax98

To the people in charge of the Nexus 7 release....

I feel scammed and I feel cheated. Not only of your accord but my own as well. I bought into the hype, I believed your words. Sadly I feel mistreated as a long time Google & Android user. The Nexus 7 was supposed to be your answer to the iPad. Not in terms of device specs, but as a company. A device you controlled with no carrier input and what was supposed to be a controlled launch. But like I learned when I bought my VZW Nexus, you're anything but a company like Apple. You have little to no control over vendors or carriers. You didn't give us a release date but when a pre-order is announced direct from you a sense of early shipment and care as its first customers is due. You didn't tell us we would get it first, you didn't tell us we would expect early. But you over hyped and under delivered. While others who paid less are opening their devices we sit watching our Google wallet accounts as charges appear and disappear with not even the slightest of indications of care from you. Sadly unless you tighten your belt and step up to the plate you will never come out of the shadow of Apple. Quality over quantity rules always. Remember that.

Like I stated in the onset, we never were told we were going to get it first. We weren't told we would be the only ones getting the $25 play card... sometimes not saying it is as bad as saying it outright. Many buyers feel misled and mistreated. You should have stepped up.... you should step up and correct this.....

Anytime now Google. We're loyal, were waiting. Blindly if anything..

-Nexus 7 Google Play Pre-Orderers


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## dtdlurch

"*you're* anything but...."

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## rexdog1888

*We're loyal, we're waiting

Sorry, I don't usually correct people, but if you really send this to them it's probably best for there to be no typos.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## altimax98

Sorry.... typed it in a doctors office on my phone


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## n0waybak

The only thing I think would redeem themselves would be free upgrades to 16gb for anyone who ordered 8gb devices, and an extra $50 in google play credit to those who ordered the 16gb. I am quite disappointed .


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## mojonation1487

altimax98 said:


> To the people in charge of the Nexus 7 release....
> 
> I feel scammed and I feel cheated. Not only of your accord but my own as well. I bought into the hype, I believed your words. Sadly I feel mistreated as a long time Google & Android user. *The Nexus 7 was supposed to be your answer to the iPad.* Not in terms of device specs, but as a company. A device you controlled with no carrier input and what was supposed to be a controlled launch. *But like I learned when I bought my VZW Nexus, you're anything but a company like Apple.* You have little to no control over vendors or carriers. *You didn't give us a release date but when a pre-order is announced direct from you a sense of early shipment and care as its first customers is due.* You didn't tell us we would get it first, you didn't tell us we would expect early. But you over hyped and under delivered. While others who paid less are opening their devices we sit watching our Google wallet accounts as charges appear and disappear with not even the slightest of indications of care from you. Sadly unless you tighten your belt and step up to the plate you will never come out of the shadow of Apple. Quality over quantity rules always. Remember that.
> 
> Like I stated in the onset, we never were told we were going to get it first. We weren't told we would be the only ones getting the $25 play card... sometimes not saying it is as bad as saying it outright. Many buyers feel misled and mistreated. You should have stepped up.... you should step up and correct this.....
> 
> Anytime now Google. We're loyal, were waiting. Blindly if anything..
> 
> -Nexus 7 Google Play Pre-Orderers


The bold parts show how ignorant you are. Nothing is their fault. YOU bought into the hype YOU created. Secondly, nexus 7 was NEVER a competitor for the ipad. Shows you don't even know what a nexus is for.


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## mojonation1487

Google NEVER promised a release date. YOU created it in your own head. It hasn't even been a month yet and you people are freaking out. Apple takes 2-3 weeks to ship their stuff after announcement. Nexus 7 is now available if you preordered in a store. Shipping will commence shorty after. Fact is, they are shipping within a month of announcement.


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## jocampbe

When you preorder anything--a game, a book, an iPhone, whatever--it is delivered on the release date. That's what a preorder is for!


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## number5toad

but a release date was not actually announced. and they're still very much on track to deliver in "mid July", "3-4 weeks" after pre-order placement, which is the only thing Google actually said about shipping and release.



n0waybak said:


> The only thing I think would redeem themselves would be free upgrades to 16gb for anyone who ordered 8gb devices, and an extra $50 in google play credit to those who ordered the 16gb. I am quite disappointed .


hoooooo boy.


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## dsr13

mojonation1487 said:


> Google NEVER promised a release date. YOU created it in your own head. It hasn't even been a month yet and you people are freaking out. Apple takes 2-3 weeks to ship their stuff after announcement. Nexus 7 is now available if you preordered in a store. Shipping will commence shorty after. Fact is, they are shipping within a month of announcement.


While I agree the letter is over the top, with all due respect, your argument is retarded. This isn't about a promised release date...it's been released; people have it. I think it's very fair to assume that a product pre-ordered from directly from google would at least be shipped before it would be available for pick-up from a third party retailer. Why is it ignorant to demand better? Just because another company provided substandard service, we should accept bad service from everyone? Also, I guarantee that if you pre-order something from apple, you won't be able to get it sooner at best-buy. I'm not crying over this, as I know I'll get my 7 sooner rather than later in any case, but it's poor marketing, poor customer-service and paying customers have every right to express their displeasure.


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## jocampbe

dsr13 said:


> This isn't about a promised release date...it's been released; people have it.


^^ this

If people can walk into a store and come out with a product, it has been released. Unless GameStop went rogue and just said F-you Google, which is unlikely at best.


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## Don Serrot

Honestly I don't care about lots of extra stuff... all I want is answers and solid info. Extra bonuses would be cool and all... but I'm not about to go about demanding stuff. I do believe Google needs to address the problems though, especially the problem of the retailers making them available, even if it's only to those who pre-ordered. I just hate being stuck here in the dark.


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## sfreemanoh

Gamestop is handing out their pre-orders, and they're expecting more devices to be delivered by next Tuesday (according to a user post on androidcentral, so take it with a grain of salt). But if that's the case, and if that happens, then Google just flat out doesn't care about their customers. Delay upcoming shipments to Gamestop by a week to "punish" them for giving them out early. If they do nothing, then they're basically saying they approve of Gamestop's tactics.


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## mojonation1487

sfreemanoh said:


> Gamestop is handing out their pre-orders, and they're expecting more devices to be delivered by next Tuesday (according to a user post on androidcentral, so take it with a grain of salt). But if that's the case, and if that happens, then Google just flat out doesn't care about their customers. Delay upcoming shipments to Gamestop by a week to "punish" them for giving them out early. If they do nothing, then they're basically saying they approve of Gamestop's tactics.


too bad they started shipping today.


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## Devator22

jocampbe said:


> ^^ this
> 
> If people can walk into a store and come out with a product, it has been released. Unless GameStop went rogue and just said F-you Google, which is unlikely at best.


That is exactly what happened...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## mojonation1487

Devator22 said:


> That is exactly what happened...
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


no google told them to sell it most likely considering google is shipping them RIGHT NOW.


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## Don Serrot

If I remember what I heard right if Google takes action it won't effect current stuff, but any future products it might.
This was when I helped a Gamestop near where I used to live catch Wal*Mart selling a game early. I was told that in the future the offending store would either get smaller shipments of new games, or not get them at all for a little bit. So that would probably mean that if Gamestop ever got to sell brand new Android tablets it'll probably be delayed and smaller shipments. It's a long term thing, not "the next shipment" as far as I know.


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## sfreemanoh

mojonation1487 said:


> too bad they started shipping today.


For a very few people so far. But as others have said, people that pre-ordered through Gamestop can walk in and claim theirs. So yeah, that's bull. Since everyone's shipping option through the Play Store is 2 days, they should be getting delivered to us the same day as the devices are available in brick-and-mortar stores. Not SHIPPING the same day as they're available elsewhere. Otherwise there's absolutely no reason to ever pre-order hardware through the Play Store again, when you can pre-order from another seller and walk in several days earlier and get yours, and not get charged shipping costs.


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## dspcap

When I pre-order a book through Amazon, it ships the same day as it's released in the store. Since some people are getting them shipped today, what is google doing wrong here? I think we are being a bit too impatient about this.


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## jocampbe

I can't speak to book orders, because I haven't read an actual paper book for years (I'm a Kindle guy) but with PS3 games and BluRay movies, pre-orders are DELIVERED on release date.


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## sfreemanoh

jocampbe said:


> I can't speak to book orders, because I haven't read an actual paper book for years (I'm a Kindle guy) but with PS3 games and BluRay movies, pre-orders are DELIVERED on release date.


Depending on the shipping option you choose during payment, yes. But the difference is, they GIVE you options. Google told us "you get 2 day shipping". Which I assumed, like most everyone else, that meant we would get them delivered (depending on when we pre-ordered, possibly) on the day they were released.


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## Mustang302LX

I 100% agree that yes those us of who pre-ordered it within the first day or two SHOULD get the device before people walking into a Game Stop today. That is the reason you pre-order so you can get it prior to the people who choose to wait in line or go to a store.

I don't agree on hating them for the time frame though. It really just became mid-July and they are starting their charges/shipments so they are perfectly on schedule. We are just impatient enthusiasts which is fine but we have to remember we aren't the majority.


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## sfreemanoh

Mustang302LX said:


> I 100% agree that yes those us of who pre-ordered it within the first day or two SHOULD get the device before people walking into a Game Stop today. That is the reason you pre-order so you can get it prior to the people who choose to wait in line or go to a store.
> 
> I don't agree on hating them for the time frame though. It really just became mid-July and they are starting their charges/shipments so they are perfectly on schedule. We are just impatient enthusiasts which is fine but we have to remember we aren't the majority.


And I agree with you on the time-frame. They never gave us a solid date, so getting annoyed by the release date is just silly.


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## xxgoosexx

Google also provisioned some of the Tablets if you asked them to when ordering (saves all of 10 seconds I know). I really don't see what the big deal is but oh well.

I hear people that did not order from the Play Store got the $25 credit as well..but did they also receive the movies and magazines?


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## sfreemanoh

xxgoosexx said:


> Google also provisioned some of the Tablets if you asked them to when ordering (saves all of 10 seconds I know). I really don't see what the big deal is but oh well.
> 
> I hear people that did not order from the Play Store got the $25 credit as well..but did they also receive the movies and magazines?


From what people are saying, yeah. Which if I had known that, I would have ordered from Gamestop and picked it up, and saved myself the $15 shipping charge.


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## Bungle

You people are ridiculous. absolutely ridiculous.

just because one company does one thing doesn't mean every other company is going to blow you for preordering something. Jesus christ.


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## iPois0n

sfreemanoh said:


> From what people are saying, yeah. Which if I had known that, I would have ordered from Gamestop and picked it up, and saved myself the $15 shipping charge.


Same here. Game stop is all but 2 blocks from my apartment. Kinda pissed at Google for this!


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## sfreemanoh

Bungle said:


> You people are ridiculous. absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> just because one company does one thing doesn't mean every other company is going to blow you for preordering something. Jesus christ.


Yeah, but if they screw over the pre-orders...well, that's less money out of their pockets in the future. So it's kind of in their best interest. And last time I checked, Google likes making money.


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## altimax98

Don't get me wrong. I don't care about the release date... it could have been next Friday for all I care. But those of us who preordered early direct from them should have gotten them shipped first. This is real bad PR. Google cannot successfully release a device these days.


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## DigitalDK

jocampbe said:


> ^^ this
> 
> If people can walk into a store and come out with a product, it has been released. Unless GameStop went rogue and just said F-you Google, which is unlikely at best.


GameStop always pulls crap like that, and Google never puts their foot down. That's the reason every phone we buy comes filled to the brim with bloatware and smut, why every phone has "Verizon" or what have you stamped on every corner. While it's great that Google has been spending so much time improving upon their OS, I feel they should spend a little on their policies when it comes to companies, wireless and reseller a like. They need to a force to be reckoned with.


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## nhat

Mustang302LX said:


> I 100% agree that yes those us of who pre-ordered it within the first day or two SHOULD get the device before people walking into a Game Stop today. That is the reason you pre-order so you can get it prior to the people who choose to wait in line or go to a store.
> 
> I don't agree on hating them for the time frame though. It really just became mid-July and they are starting their charges/shipments so they are perfectly on schedule. We are just impatient enthusiasts which is fine but we have to remember we aren't the majority.


Google hit their time frame, nobody can blame them for that.

Allowing pre-orders that were opened after their own to be fulfilled is just wrong...especially when we're paying tax and shipping.


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## nhat

DigitalDK said:


> GameStop always pulls crap like that, and Google never puts their foot down. That's the reason every phone we buy comes filled to the brim with bloatware and smut, why every phone has "Verizon" or what have you stamped on every corner. While it's great that Google has been spending so much time improving upon their OS, I feel they should spend a little on their policies when it comes to companies, wireless and reseller a like. They need to a force to be reckoned with.


I highly doubt Gamestop is to blame. They've had them in stock for a couple days and held onto them because Google asked them to.

What really grinds me gears is that those without pre-orders could pick one up from Gamestop: http://www.zdnet.com/nexus-7-starts-shipping-to-those-who-preordered-available-in-gamestop-for-anyone-7000000898/


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## droidmakespwn

If I got it from Google I would see if GameStop had any more in stock and of so cancel my preorder.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## ERIFNOMI

That is all.


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## JMac4

iPois0n said:


> Same here. Game stop is all but 2 blocks from my apartment. Kinda pissed at Google for this!


+1


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## brizey

The Apple happy press will have a field day with this.

Apple release day=people smiling at 3 am in line at the Apple store... and going home with their iThing

Google release day= people wondering why they ordered from Google

Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Nitrogenus

Perhaps retailers were extended pre-order offers before individuals. Or, perhaps the retailers were extended the pre-order at the same time as individuals, and they took advantage by ordering more than one. Regardless, being pissed at Google for not meeting expectations you set for them is a bit more than silly.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## NatemZ

Perhaps we are all learning what a Google pre-order means. Pre-order from a retailer instead.


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## Smcdo123

First off although I am mad about this at the same time I am not. Reasons being.....

1. Google could say hey you got it from gamestop, deal with them (which i have heard already as someone people are not getting their $25 play store only the movie)
2. Gamestop possibly pulled the gun early maybe? And google maybe tried to stop them but then said oh well we are selling the shit out of it.
3. I dont really care cause Ill have it in a few days and i dont personally know anyone that has it before me so im content haha.


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## yaoverstand

droidmakespwn said:


> If I got it from Google I would see if GameStop had any more in stock and of so cancel my preorder.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


This is what most people have thought to do, but Google is not allowing cancellation of orders. They have been saying this for almost a week. They say that all you can do is refuse delivery of the package...but a signature is not required for the package, according to many (myself included; I spoke with google customer service today and they said that I would not need to be home to accept delivery of the device). Just check the thread over at xda in the Nexus 7 forum "All in one Google Play Order Thread" or something along those lines. Also, just for the sake of full disclosure, I ordered my 8gb nx7 at 11:43:16 on June 28th (no accessories). I just had money deducted from my bank account today (for the second time), but have received no shipping notification or tracking number. 
I walked to my local gamestop and asked if they had them in stock. They said that no one had pre ordered them and they had 10 16gb in stock. I would have gladly bought one and cancelled my Play Store preorder, if only that were possible. I do not have the funds to carry 2 charges for 2 different tablets for a couple of weeks. 
All that I really want from Google is an acknowledgement that they botched the launch of this device. I want them to acknowledge that the die-hard android users/developers, who believed enough in the product to put their money up IMMEDIATELY after the announcement, were not treated appropriately in the launch of this game-changing device launch. The Nexus 7 is going to bring so many of us soooooooo much enjoyment and opportunity for innovation. In complete honesty, it is the Android tablet I have been waiting for (minus the lack of MHL and an SD card slot...but come on, its a $200 tablet). I think that this community of early adopters, developers, and enthusiasts just wants to have the piece of mind that the company (that owns the operating system that we all love and believe in) made a mistake, and that they will do their best to correct and prevent it in the future. 
Google: Apologize to and take care of your die hard community. Learn from this experience. None of us who truly understand the potential of Android are going anywhere. We just want to make sure you're listening.


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## number5toad

again - major hardware releases are not something Google does frequently, and I'd argue that they've never yet done one with this much hype going into it.


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## NatemZ

Smcdo123 said:


> First off although I am mad about this at the same time I am not. Reasons being.....
> 
> 1. Google could say hey you got it from gamestop, deal with them (which i have heard already as someone people are not getting their $25 play store only the movie)
> 2. Gamestop possibly pulled the gun early maybe? And google maybe tried to stop them but then said oh well we are selling the shit out of it.
> 3. I dont really care cause Ill have it in a few days and i dont personally know anyone that has it before me so im content haha.


I feel the same way. I will have it next week. No big deal.

But it wasnt gamestop. There are plenty of ppl saying Sam's Club sold them as well as Wal-Mart.


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## gummi james

What was supposed to be a fantastic launch has been marred with terrible customer service. I really hope Google learns from this. I am still going to support Nexus devices but I'm never going to order a device from the Play Store again.


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## Smcdo123

NatemZ said:


> I feel the same way. I will have it next week. No big deal.
> 
> But it wasnt gamestop. There are plenty of ppl saying Sam's Club sold them as well as Wal-Mart.


Oh really? Missed that. It sucks but honestly I would rather deal with Google even if it is a shit fest lol.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## iPois0n

gummi james said:


> What was supposed to be a fantastic launch has been marred with terrible customer service. I really hope Google learns from this. I am still going to support Nexus devices but I'm never going to order a device from the Play Store again.


This


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## EsotericPunk

So I guess my question is this: Why would Google go to the trouble of creating a 2 day shipping charge if it were planning to have the tablet delivered to homes on the release date? If they were trying to deliver _on_ the release day, it seems like the better bet would be to go with a standard ground shipping and add a few days to the planned release. The fact that the play store had 2 day shipping suggested to me right from the start that it was likely they were planning to ship them on the release date. I know from past releases of other products that retail outlets usually get new items slightly ahead of time so that they can have them in stock on release day.

For example, if I were to pre-order a phone from Verizon or AT&T or whoever, I would expect that the release date would hit and then it would ship. Alternatively I could gamble that a retailer might have it in stock and try to go in and buy it. I don't get up in arms over AT&T not having it on my doorstep the morning of release. Just my two cents.


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## ERIFNOMI

This is getting ridiculous. Some of us here need to step away from the computer for a day and realise it's not a huge deal. Give it time and if you see these posts again you'll feel like a terrible person.


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## iPois0n

We have a right to vent. We have expetations just like Google has expectations. Ours were not met. Your might be but I'm disappointed!


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## nhat

EsotericPunk said:


> This is getting ridiculous. Some of us here need to step away from the computer for a day and realise it's not a huge deal. Give it time and if you see these posts again you'll feel like a terrible person.


I agree, it's ridiculous for people that ordered their tablets 3 weeks ago to receive them days after those that pre-ordered weeks after, and worse yet after those that walked into a B&M retail store without any sort of pre-order.


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## EsotericPunk

nhat said:


> My sister pre-ordered the SGS3 and received it days before the official release at Verizon B&Ms. That's how a pre-order works. At worst, she'd receive it on the release date.


This is merely anecdotal. The actual marketing concept behind a pre-order (which I think is pretty well represented on Wikipedia's page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-order) is that a product is reserved by making a partial or full deposit and, upon release, will be delivered in the agreed upon manner. This is what I was getting at when I said that I like to pre-order from stores. That way they are responsible to have my product in the store, reserved for me on release day. If I placed a mail-order, I would fully expect it to be shipped on release day. The story you presented above is a nice surprise for your sister, but is not the traditional way pre-orders were handled. It's not fair to condemn Google just because Samsung happened to go above and beyond and Google didn't. If I bought something at Best Buy and then found out that Staples would have sold it to me _and_ given me a candy bar, I wouldn't think any less of Best Buy. I'd just wish I had that candy bar.

I think that the only people who have any right to hold a grievance are those whose Nexi (is that the plural form?) were not shipped on release day. Even then, companies have to manage order fulfillment in whichever way they think might be the most efficient. Cut them some slack, they are trying.


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## throwbot

Saying apple is a better company over this is simply bullshit. I mean, it seems like Google is doing everything they can to get them out ASAP, and if that means stores start selling them the same day that Google ships them, so be it. Companies do things on an annual schedule, and if you would rather get your devices in the fall like apple customers then be my guest. Personally I'd rather have my tablet next week then two months from now.

Having said that, I'm glad that I didn't order from the play store-- and that does articulate something negative about Google, and at the very least I hope they're aware of that. I don't blame them for putting the $25 credit on all of them. They aren't making money off of the tablets, they are making it off of the content, and as any crack dealer will tell you-- the best way to get someone to come back and chase that dragon is to give them a little taste.

I hope my nexus 7 gives me a ringer. Sorry to all of you guys who got screwed on the pre order. Now I'm gonna go sleep for three hours and wake up and go find a nexus 7.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## throwbot

And on a side note, that $15 shipping charge sounds like some infomercial tactic. You can't blame them for being a little shady on the surcharges tho BC they are giving us this tablet for dirt cheap.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## ROM_Ulan

EsotericPunk said:


> This is merely anecdotal. The actual marketing concept behind a pre-order (which I think is pretty well represented on Wikipedia's page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-order) is that a product is reserved by making a partial or full deposit and, upon release, will be delivered in the agreed upon manner. This is what I was getting at when I said that I like to pre-order from stores. That way they are responsible to have my product in the store, reserved for me on release day. If I placed a mail-order, I would fully expect it to be shipped on release day. The story you presented above is a nice surprise for your sister, but is not the traditional way pre-orders were handled. It's not fair to condemn Google just because Samsung happened to go above and beyond and Google didn't. If I bought something at Best Buy and then found out that Staples would have sold it to me _and_ given me a candy bar, I wouldn't think any less of Best Buy. I'd just wish I had that candy bar.
> 
> I think that the only people who have any right to hold a grievance are those whose Nexi (is that the plural form?) were not shipped on release day. Even then, companies have to manage order fulfillment in whichever way they think might be the most efficient. Cut them some slack, they are trying.


I understand what you're saying. I would love to cut Google some slack but I pre-ordered my N7 just a few hours after announcement. I have received no conformation and the money isn't taken from my account. In what logical process would someone who pre-ordered it 2 days ago have a higher priority to ship that me who pre-ordered on the 27th. I don't think that is right. And I probably won't get my tablet until Wed/Thu while the people who ordered 2 days ago will have it Monday.


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## altimax98

throwbot said:


> Saying apple is a better company over this is simply bullshit. I mean, it seems like Google is doing everything they can to get them out ASAP, and if that means stores start selling them the same day that Google ships them, so be it. Companies do things on an annual schedule, and if you would rather get your devices in the fall like apple customers then be my guest.


I'm not trying to start a flame war, but that is the most fanboy response I have ever heard. Based on your logic then all iPad owners have a leg up on us because it didn't release in July, they released it in March.... doesn't make sense does it?

Apple is superior in every way then Google when it comes to customer service and the company as storefront. Apples customer service is world renowned. You don't get treated like shit. Google has absolutely no rhyme or reason to how or when they ship the item. There is not one excuse on the planet that explains why someone could have ordered the device yesterday morning and it already ship, but yet I and many others per ordered it a week or more ago and don't even have a pending charge on our accounts. I will never order another device from the Play store even if its cheaper just because of this and many others feel likewise. Google had a chance to launch the play store as a true competitor to apple and they botched it more then they ever could have imagined.

Its like Preordering tickets to see Batman at the Imax Midnight showing where your seat is guaranteed. You bought it on the first day of availability but when you arrive your told you have been pushed to another later showing, and walk-ins get into the first showing.... its not right on any level for any company.


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## throwbot

altimax98 said:


> I'm not trying to start a flame war, but that is the most fanboy response I have ever heard. Based on your logic then all iPad owners have a leg up on us because it didn't release in July, they released it in March.... doesn't make sense does it?
> 
> Apple is superior in every way then Google when it comes to customer service and the company as storefront. Apples customer service is world renowned. You don't get treated like shit. Google has absolutely no rhyme or reason to how or when they ship the item. There is not one excuse on the planet that explains why someone could have ordered the device yesterday morning and it already ship, but yet I and many others per ordered it a week or more ago and don't even have a pending charge on our accounts. I will never order another device from the Play store even if its cheaper just because of this and many others feel likewise. Google had a chance to launch the play store as a true competitor to apple and they botched it more then they ever could have imagined.
> 
> Its like Preordering tickets to see Batman at the Imax Midnight showing where your seat is guaranteed. You bought it on the first day of availability but when you arrive your told you have been pushed to another later showing, and walk-ins get into the first showing.... its not right on any level for any company.


Yeah, of course apple has better customer service, BC they make hardware, and have to warranty that hardware. Google makes money off of putting peoples faces in front of a screen.

I know my logic wasn't exactly flawless about the release thing-- you'll have to excuse me, it was 5 a.m. and I was as toasted as a grilled cheese sandwich.

But the fact of the matter is, apple knows they are gonna have lines (at their stores that sell hardware) and so they deliberately focus on a date bc release is all part of their hype. I'm telling you, if this was apple then they would give us a date for this coming Friday or next Tuesday so they were sure to be ready. Google wanted to get these out as fast as they cod after I/O. I'm telling you, if they were more concerned on a solid release date and first come/ first serve basis then none of us would have these tablets for another week or two.

That's all I was saying.

Edit: if they already had 80% of the tablet market share, they'd prolly have a release date, too.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## throwbot

ROM_Ulan said:


> In what logical process would someone who pre-ordered it 2 days ago have a higher priority to ship that me who pre-ordered on the 27th.


I see what you mean, but if filling pre orders out of order is the worse thing they've done, then it can't be that bad. At least they dont start suing everyone once they start to lose market share.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## throwbot

And hell yes I'm a fan boy! Fuck Apple, I hate those cheeky bastards.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## throwbot

Quadruple post? OK I'm done, I'm gonna go play with my kittens.

And no, I'm not talking about the two unconscious, hungover girls on the couch.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## chROMed

They should have started taking pre orders after July or better yet, not even taken pre orders at all. Its like calling and making a reservation at a restaurant, getting there, and having to wait on walk ins for an hour. Not why you make reservations or pre orders. People should be disappointed.


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## Colchiro

_[background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]"The Nexus 7 was supposed to be your answer to the iPad."[/background]_

[background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]Last I heard it was competing with the Kindle Fire.[/background]


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## altimax98

Colchiro said:


> _[background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]"The Nexus 7 was supposed to be your answer to the iPad."[/background]_
> 
> [background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]Last I heard it was competing with the Kindle Fire.[/background]


Like I said in the letter. It wasnt the device its competing with, but the storefront Apple has established. The play store is oddly reminiscent of iTunes and Apple.com. Especially since you can directly order cases and such from them.


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## throwbot

Who said my logic was flawed? Any who..

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## atka

I agree Google screwed up this launch big time. They had a chance to roll out the play store devices and they didn't. I don't imagine that store well be successful after this launch.


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## throwbot

Yeah I mean I'll defend Google til the day I die, but I guarantee anybody who pre ordered the nexus 7 tablet won't ever pre ordered directly from the play store again.

Hell, I didn't even pre order from them and I know I won't ever do it unless its an absolute have-to.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## JB2005

number5toad said:


> again - major hardware releases are not something Google does frequently, and I'd argue that they've never yet done one with this much hype going into it.


I agree with you on this. I will also pre order again from Play Store if the chance comes up. I'm just as excited to get mine as the next person but really I'm just glad it has shipped finally. I really don't know what the fuss is about.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the first release of an actual device straight from Google and through their store? I'm sure they learned a lot and the next one will be better. I think we should support the Play Store and then maybe someday we can by all our phones from there and skip the carrier BS.
Just say in.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2


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## number5toad

it's the first hardware launch through the Play Store, but back when the Nexus One launched Google sold it directly through a different web store - and it didn't sell very well that way. they started selling the GNex direct through the Play Store a while back, when the rumors about the N7 were still pretty vague, and as far as I know it didn't sell very well that way, either. they haven't produced any hardware with this much hype up til now.

I'm certainly not ruling out ordering or pre-ordering through the Play Store in the future.


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## EsotericPunk

ROM_Ulan said:


> In what logical process would someone who pre-ordered it 2 days ago have a higher priority to ship that me who pre-ordered on the 27th. I don't think that is right.


I agree with you on this. If they were going to ship on the day of release they should definitely stick to the order in which orders were placed from the play store. If someone has a ship notice that ordered it 2 days ago and you ordered it right after I/O, that's messed up.


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## Don Serrot

Just to throw my 2c in on the whole pre-order thing, all you are doing is placing a hold on one unit to be set aside for you to guarantee that should they sell out you will have one. No more, no less. Most places these days do a little extra, like Amazon will give you street day delivery for some big game releases, but that is something extra they do and not even for every game that comes out. A pre-order isn't a guarantee that you'll get the item before anyone else, it isn't even implied, it's simply guaranteeing that when the time comes you will get one.


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## nhat

throwbot said:


> Just to throw my 2c in on the whole pre-order thing, all you are doing is placing a hold on one unit to be set aside for you to guarantee that should they sell out you will have one. No more, no less. Most places these days do a little extra, like Amazon will give you street day delivery for some big game releases, but that is something extra they do and not even for every game that comes out. A pre-order isn't a guarantee that you'll get the item before anyone else, it isn't even implied, it's simply guaranteeing that when the time comes you will get one.


Then why is it that my sister received her SGS3 before the release date? There are always perks to being early adopters and I have yet to find anything unique to placing a pre-order through the Play Store. Being guaranteed an order means nothing when people could walk into a Gamestop/Walmart/Sam's and walk out without a pre-order while also receiving the so-called "limited time" perks that Google advertised to lure people in.


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## number5toad

nhat said:


> To add even more insult to injury, judging by threads here and on xda, there's no rhyme or reason to the order in which Google is shipping out pre-orders. I'm one of the lucky few early pre-orders to receive notification that my tablet shipped while some that ordered before many of us have yet to receive anything from Google.


this is the only part that bothers me, even though I'm also one of the lucky early orders that has already shipped.

the rest of these complaints - which are seemingly exclusive to Android fan forums right now - are just people being upset when Google didn't meet expectations that they didn't actually set.


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## nhat

number5toad said:


> this is the only part that bothers me, even though I'm also one of the lucky early orders that has already shipped.
> 
> the rest of these complaints - which are seemingly exclusive to Android fan forums right now - are just people being upset when Google didn't meet expectations that they didn't actually set.


As am I. I'm in agreement with you that there was no set date of release but what's the reasoning behind receiving our shipments after those that waited before jumping in?

Would you be upset if you made a reservation at a restaurant only to have your table given to someone who just walked in? Do you get upset when you're stuck in traffic and some asshat flies past everyone in the line only to cut someone off because he thinks his time is more valuable than yours?

Nobody likes line cutters, but maybe Google doesn't believe in lines or queues.


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## number5toad

no argument whatsoever. like I said, that's the only thing about this launch that really annoys me. I was watching a few different threads in a few different places yesterday, and hearing reports from people who ordered last week that they'd already gotten their shipping notifications, and getting pissed. I know you think it's a bad excuse, but I really don't think Google's team was ready to handle the order volume they got with this thing. if they launch another big device through the Play Store that I want, and I decide to pre-order, I'll be ready to judge based on THAT experience - but this being their first huge product launch, I just think people are judging too harshly.


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## Don Serrot

nhat said:


> Just to throw my 2c in on the whole pre-order thing, all you are doing is placing a hold on one unit to be set aside for you to guarantee that should they sell out you will have one. No more, no less.* Most places these days do a little extra, like Amazon will give you street day delivery for some big game releases, but that is something extra they do and not even for every game that comes out. A pre-order isn't a guarantee that you'll get the item before anyone else, it isn't even implied, it's simply guaranteeing that when the time comes you will get one.*


You... asked me a question that I already answered. XD
Also not everything has extra perks for early adopters. I'll use the video game example because that is the one I'm most familiar with. Not every game that comes out has a pre-order bonus, only a handful of them do. Also there is a bonus for early adopters, $25 play store credit, movie, and magazines. It's not Play Store exclusive, but it won't be there for everyone who gets a Nexus 7, just the first ones who get one till an unspecified time.

What we have here is a problem of "Most of the time" vs "Actual definition". People think that pre-order is get it before anyone else, and forget that it's actually just a reservation. I'll admit I fell into that thinking for a bit too, and even sent Google an email voicing my displeasure. But then I remembered what it really means.

Your sister got her SGS3 early because the company decided to send them out early, not because it was a pre-order, just because they knew that people would want them right away. Google simply didn't think about that and went with a more traditional pre-order release and it's not what people expected. Is Google wrong? No. Am I a bit disappointed that they didn't think ahead? Yes, and I'm not the only one. But this is a valuable learning experience, now Google knows that this wasn't the best way to go about it. Is it going to hurt future device launch sales? Possibly, but Google seems to be good at not repeating mistakes so I think next time things should be much smoother.

@number5toad: I'm with you 100%


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## JB2005

nhat said:


> It's fairly easy to understand what the fuss is about. When the pre-order went up, one of the selling factors was free stuff being bundled with your pre-order for a limited time. That, plus the understanding of receiving your product first, was why I pre-ordered a Nexus 7 from the Play Store.
> 
> Oddly enough, people could walk into any Gamestop and walk out with a Nexus 7 in hand along with the $25 Play Store credit, free magazines, and movie. To add insult to injury, they don't have to pay shipping which was anywhere from $10-20 while we STILL had to pay tax on an out-of-state internet order. If you can't understand why we would be annoyed (to put it mildly), there's no getting through to you. Not only is the "limited time" content available to non-pre-orders, they have the tablets before those who pre-ordered 2-3 weeks ago and didn't have to pay for shipping.
> 
> We all have the same understanding of what a pre-order is:
> http://www.macmillan...s/pre-order.htm


We are some of the first to get it comparatively it doesn't say you will be first.

I guess you could get upset and I could also but I choose not to sweat the small stuff. I placed an order and now do my thing and then it comes to my door no driving or anything. I order online and pre order for convenience reasons myself mostly and if their is a bonus then it is just that a bonus.
I get taxed weather I buy it in town or online anyway. Well unless I want to spend the gas to drive over to the next state.


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## kedens

dspcap said:


> When I pre-order a book through Amazon, it ships the same day as it's released in the store. Since some people are getting them shipped today, what is google doing wrong here? I think we are being a bit too impatient about this.


I personally don't think Google is wrong because people set their own expectations that differed from the simple time frame google promised and stuck to.... HOWEVER, I pre order books from Amazon on a weekly basis and I ALWAYS get pre ordered books on release date (actually about 1/2 of them arrive 1-2 days early but that's irrelevant here). I suppose it may just be an Amazon Prime bonus but I think it's their SOP for pre orders. But again such was never promised by Google. They set a time frame and hit it. That's less common than it should be, and quite commendable

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## Kusanagi Fire

While I understand people's sentiments about not receiving their preorder ahead of stores (especially when Apple, Amazon, Gamestop, and others do a good job of fulfilling preorders on release day), I do believe this is a learning experience for Google and it'll take them some time to nail down logistics. Unfortunately, a release date was never promised beyond "mid-July." Do I expect better of Google? Sure. I really hope Google learns from this experience and if they're planning to use the Play Store to sell more of their own products in the future, they should hire employees with a strong background in shipping logistics. They should also be more transparent with release dates in the future, although I know they're more excited to announce the coming release of a device (see Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7).


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## luniz7

Im not really that mad about the pre order ordeal, but all you people that are saying a pre order doesnt guarantee you the devices before others, what is a pre order then? Why would I pre order a device and pay an extra $20 shipping when I could go buy it at a B&M today? Makes no sense to me.....


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## Don Serrot

> *A pre-order isn't a guarantee that you'll get the item before anyone else, it isn't even implied, it's simply guaranteeing that when the time comes you will get one.*


Can't guarantee that they'll still be in stock in the stores when you go to buy one. Having it pre-ordered guarantees you will get one.


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## dansan

Wtf you crying about? I didn't feel like reading any of this


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## MistaWolfe

throwbot said:


> Saying apple is a better company over this is simply bullshit. I mean, it seems like Google is doing everything they can to get them out ASAP, and if that means stores start selling them the same day that Google ships them, so be it. Companies do things on an annual schedule, and if you would rather get your devices in the fall like apple customers then be my guest. Personally I'd rather have my tablet next week then two months from now.
> 
> Having said that, I'm glad that I didn't order from the play store-- and that does articulate something negative about Google, and at the very least I hope they're aware of that. I don't blame them for putting the $25 credit on all of them. They aren't making money off of the tablets, they are making it off of the content, and as any crack dealer will tell you-- the best way to get someone to come back and chase that dragon is to give them a little taste.
> 
> I hope my nexus 7 gives me a ringer. Sorry to all of you guys who got screwed on the pre order. Now I'm gonna go sleep for three hours and wake up and go find a nexus 7.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Most companies run off of a fiscal year, not the calendar year.

Just had to point that out. Extra credit if you can tell me what a fiscal year is without googling 
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Kpa2727

I'm gonna paste from my other thread cause i think it belongs here instead .

2 of my biggest gripes are 1. no physical store to exchange if i have issues and the shipping. I preordered because i didn't hear it was announced for any retailers. Now anyone who preordeed through the play store technically got burned 3 ways. 1. you don't have a luxury of instant exchange like a gamestop customer 2. you paid tax ontop of shipping. 3. lastly you don't get it till later then everyone else. Google dropped the ball yes. I'd be happy with a simple shipping refund, google had a rocky launch and it happens, shipping is really my only grudge. Yes playstore should of got a perk hence first dibs. To those complaining, if google sells a xbox that is made by gamestop and everyone who ordered through gamestop gets it later then the third party vendor say google. Who are you going to be angry at? I don't see why noone gets the fact that first party buyers got burned vs 3rd party buyers. In the end we got shafted, announcements or not. It wasn't made clear other retailers would sell them till after preorders went up on google play. Idon't see a Nexus Q in a gamestop, do you? in a whole noone see's that there is brand loyalty, customers went to google like i did because we put are trust in the company to treat us with a premium service. That wasn't given here, I don't know of any other company that would allow 3rd party vendors perks over a 1st party. I'm sure google looses more money through gamestop and others then direct buyers.


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## number5toad

I doubt Google's losing money on the retailers - teardowns showed that the extra memory in the 16gb version is at most worth an extra $5, not $50, and have you noticed that brick and mortars are only selling the 16gb version?


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## nhat

Don Serrot said:


> Can't guarantee that they'll still be in stock in the stores when you go to buy one. Having it pre-ordered guarantees you will get one.


And we could have pre-ordered at a local B&M retailer with all the same perks while not having to pay shipping on top of receiving it before Play Store pre-orders. The early adopters (pre-orders on the 27th and 28th) weren't aware that pre-orders would be available on the 29th at Gamestop. I felt that ordering that early would put the Nexus 7 in my hands a couple of days before or at least on the day Gamestop made their stock available. As it stands now, there are pre-orders on the 27th and 28th that have yet to receive any sort of notification. There's a good possibility that these early adopters will receive their orders a full week after later adopters. How is that fair? Sorry, being "guaranteed" that you'll get one is a poor excuse at this point.

Unfortunately, none of us can predict the future. I could have cancelled my order or had my bank refuse the charge from Google but I'm not hard-pressed to have this tablet in my hands. I'm not mad, annoyed if anything and I understand why people are voicing their displeasure. There is no good reason for Google to have messed this launch up.

I hope Google learns from this and prepares themselves for the next Nexus phone and Nexus 10 tablet launch.


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## error311

I think this is actually good for the Nexus brand. They are sold out and doing waves to buy it meaning they sold way more then they thought they would. We all should be proud, not angry at google. Patience is a virtue....


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## mojonation1487

luniz7 said:


> Im not really that mad about the pre order ordeal, but all you people that are saying a pre order doesnt guarantee you the devices before others, what is a pre order then? Why would I pre order a device and pay an extra $20 shipping when I could go buy it at a B&M today? Makes no sense to me.....


You obviously don't know what a preorder is. A preorder (online) doesn't guarantee delivery on the release date unless they SPECIFICALLY tell you. It means you will get your order guaranteed before supply runs out. Which you will.


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## RCantw3ll

I have never pre-ordered a product online and received it the day of release, so I did not expect this to be any different. If anything, when I pre-ordered I told my friend that I would probably have it on the 16th or 17th. Looks like I nailed that one. /shrugs...


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## Hellboy

This is what happens when you are an impulsive buyer. You should of known this tablet wasn't going to be exclusive to the play store. They would be stupid not to offer it to retail chains. This is why you don't do impulsive buying you always get burned in the end. Next time do your homework.

Now on to this preorder crap. Many on here still don't get it. Preorder means they hold a copy for you so you're guaranteed a copy when its released. So when you walk in to the store you get it no matter the time of day or days after if you deciede to pick it up. Where as walk ins who didn't preorder has to take a chance its still in stock. So basically to the Guy with the restaurant reservations its the same thing you are promised a table at a certain time. Just like the movie ticket. You Fandango a ticket and the theater holds it for that showing. That's how preorder works. You are not the first to enter the theater or get to choose your seat. Its amazing how when people gets upset their brains shutdown. They modify how stuff works so it benifits them.

This crap of we should get it first before everyone else is just childish and not how preorders work. If it did work that way then stores couldn't sell anything until everyone who preordered picked their copy up. So you ordered from the play store and you put all this expectations on Google. Google didn't promise you nothing but you would be guaranteed a nexus 7 when they ship and not when it launches that day. So if you have to wait 2 days over others who preordered in a retail store oh well you learned a lesson. In the end you will get your device and Google isn't to blame. The blame falls on the ones who was impulsive and placed their own expectations on Google.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## nhat

mojonation1487 said:


> I have never pre-ordered a product online and received it the day of release, so I did not expect this to be any different. If anything, when I pre-ordered I told my friend that I would probably have it on the 16th or 17th. Looks like I nailed that one. /shrugs...


I've always received my pre-orders early or on the day of official release. It's why I pre-order, it's why most of us pre-order. I can walk into a number of B&Ms today and walk out with one and save money.


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## number5toad

anybody seen a dead horse laying around here

I brought this huge stick....


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## Hellboy

Well that didn't work. Maybe the mods needs to put the dead horse Smiley in out Smiley icon list.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## nhat

Hellboy said:


> This is what happens when you are an impulsive buyer. You should of known this tablet wasn't going to be exclusive to the play store. They would be stupid not to offer it to retail chains. This is why you don't do impulsive buying you always get burned in the end. Next time do your homework.
> 
> Now on to this preorder crap. Many on here still don't get it. Preorder means they hold a copy for you so you're guaranteed a copy when its released. So when you walk in to the store you get it no matter the time of day or days after if you deciede to pick it up. Where as walk ins who didn't preorder has to take a chance its still in stock. So basically to the Guy with the restaurant reservations its the same thing you are promised a table at a certain time. Just like the movie ticket. You Fandango a ticket and the theater holds it for that showing. That's how preorder works. You are not the first to enter the theater or get to choose your seat. Its amazing how when people gets upset their brains shutdown. They modify how stuff works so it benifits them.
> 
> This crap of we should get it first before everyone else is just childish and not how preorders work. If it did work that way then stores couldn't sell anything until everyone who preordered picked their copy up. So you ordered from the play store and you put all this expectations on Google. Google didn't promise you nothing but you would be guaranteed a nexus 7 when they ship and not when it launches that day. So if you have to wait 2 days over others who preordered in a retail store oh well you learned a lesson. In the end you will get your device and Google isn't to blame. The blame falls on the ones who was impulsive and placed their own expectations on Google.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


For most of us, this wasn't an impulse buy. Your argument holds no water. Impulse buyers are those walking into B&Ms and walking out with one.

For as long as I've been pre-ordering items on the internet, I've always received them early or on the day of official release. Your argument that we're modifying how stuff works to benefit ourselves is a weak argument. If we go by social norms, pre-orders get shipped early or arrive on the day of official release. It's a rarity that pre-orders show up afterwards. My sister pre-ordered the SGS3 and received it days before it was made available to the general public. All my game and DLC pre-orders are made available to me at worst on the day of official release.

How is it childish? Do you make reservations at a restaurant? Do you arrive early to get in line? It's the way the world works. Would you get mad if you went to a restaurant with a table of 4 an hour ahead of another group of 4 only to watch the hostess give the next open 4 top to them? How is Google not to blame when people who ordered before me have yet to receive any notification about their item? Again you bring up impulse. I don't think you understand what an impulse buy is.

Google is pushing the Play Store and how they've handled this launch will only cause people to look elsewhere to purchase their devices in the future. I speak for myself and can honestly say that I won't be placing my next pre-order on the Play Store until I see change in their logistics.


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## number5toad

I will readily agree that this was no impulse buy for me - I'd been planning on buying one since the first rumors.

but unless you've pre-ordered hardware from Google in the past...which I can virtually guarantee you haven't....there's really no reason other than your own expectations to think you'd get it early.


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## nhat

number5toad said:


> I will readily agree that this was no impulse buy for me - I'd been planning on buying one since the first rumors.
> 
> but unless you've pre-ordered hardware from Google in the past...which I can virtually guarantee you haven't....there's really no reason other than your own expectations to think you'd get it early.


To say that this was an impulse buy on an Android enthusiast site is asinine.

Exactly, we all have expectations which were developed by pre-orders we've all placed at other retailers. As high as we hold Google, we should expect them to give us the same level of service as other retailers. Much like we except to get the next open table at a restaurant or to be the next person to enter the theater, in order.

I have to reiterate that receiving my Nexus 7 early next week doesn't bother me. In retrospect, I wish I had known more about how Google would be handling this. I wish I had known that Gamestop would be allowed to take pre-orders 2 days after Google announced they would be taking pre-orders on the Play Store. I wish I had known that pre-orders at local B&Ms would also receive the $25 Play Store credit, magazines, and movie...even without a pre-order.

Save the "you only have yourself to blame" argument. We all expect more of Google and they let many of us down. Google advertised the limited time offer to get people to pre-order through them directly, leading us to believe that they would be the only ones to offer it.

But I can deal with all of that. What bothers me most is...tax. Really? Tax? On an out-of-state internet order? Someone please explain that to me.


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## Don Serrot

@Hellboy: You may have failed the picture posting... but you won the thread.


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## Hellboy

You ever stop to look at their policy on pre orders? Or do you assume? Sure some stuff gets shipped early. most of the time that's not the case. Ever think the mail service just got it to your sister a little faster as maybe she lives in the general area of where they shipped from? If they ship an item from lets say Virginia and one person lives in Virginia and another California. Who would normally get the item first?

Impulsive buying. Person who hears the nexus 7 is being offered for preorder from the I/O convention. People rush to play store to place order asap without knowing a shipping date or if it will be offered at any other stores. Just be able to say I was one of the firsts to order.

Yes it is childish how people are acting. Preorder don't mean you will be the first to get it. It means you will be promised one even if it sells out. That's why your restaurant reservations is a poor example.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## CharliesTheMan

Google should have planned an official launch day and did a big retail store launch so that people who didn't want to wait could camp out and get them in the store immediately. And people who didn't want to wait in line or camp out, either overnight for a morning release or at lunchtime time for an evening release, could preorder theirs and know they had a shot at having them within a few weeks of launch.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using RootzWiki


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## nhat

Hellboy said:


> Google should have planned an official launch day and did a big retail store launch so that people who didn't want to wait could camp out and get them in the store immediately. And people who didn't want to wait in line or camp out, either overnight for a morning release or at lunchtime time for an evening release, could preorder theirs and know they had a shot at having them within a few weeks of launch.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6425LVW using RootzWiki


Someone who gets it.


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## sfreemanoh

RCantw3ll said:


> I have never pre-ordered a product online and received it the day of release, so I did not expect this to be any different. If anything, when I pre-ordered I told my friend that I would probably have it on the 16th or 17th. Looks like I nailed that one. /shrugs...


I've always had the OPTION of getting pre-orders delivered on release day. But always, for every pre-order I've ever made, the product has been shipped before the release day. I know a lot of people received notices their N7 was shipped Friday. Mine was prepared for shipping, but as it was so late when I received it (actually very early Saturday morning), it won't be going out until Monday, and I won't get it until Wednesday. Five days after it was available at Gamestop for pre-orders and walk-ins alike. And that's not even to take into consideration the people who still haven't received shipping notices.
Now, whatever people may say about us just having to be impatient, etc etc, that's irrelevant. Our assumptions and expectations have been made from years of pre-orders. Google can't just come in this late in the game and say "Well, to US pre-orders just mean you'll get your N7 eventually, so sit back and take a nap". That's how people get pissed. Hell, I'm half considering rejecting the shipment on Wednesday, and just getting one from my local Gamestop for $15 cheaper. I think Google was just trying to eke out a little more money, by making the early purchasers assume it was going to be at least initially available only from the Play store.


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## Hellboy

You know what they say when people assume.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## ERIFNOMI

nhat said:


> The early adopters (pre-orders on the 27th and 28th) weren't aware that pre-orders would be available on the 29th at Gamestop. I felt that ordering that early would put the Nexus 7 in my hands a couple of days before or at least on the day Gamestop made their stock available.


And that's Google fault? Did they say you could only order from them then turn around and allow Gamestop to sell it? Did Google say they were going to sell it a month earlier than anyone else?
No, people made assumptions. Everyone was excited about I/O and made decisions while they were fired up without thinking. It's not Google's fault if you didn't shop around.


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## tsruggles

Here's my two cents. And for the record, I fit into both and neither of these categories.

To all of the people who are telling people to quit whining:

Pre-ordering from Google kind of gives one the impression that you could expect top priority. Yes, people are complaining, but this tablet is a toy and people want to play.

You see, I work for a living and I'd rather play with my toy on a weekend, not midweek. Being that some people received it on Friday kind of got my panties in a bunch. Especially since I would have ordered from Gamestop were it not for their estimated delivery of date of late July to early August. Yes the Play Store website said 3-4 weeks lead time but when I called for more information they said to definitely expect it around "Mid-July". This information was also all over the internet.

These tablets have been dangled in front of our noses for a couple weeks, with no release date, vague details, customer service akin to inner city fast food chains, AND released from third parties before Google even got them shipped out. Some say that is not Google's fault, but I'm fairly certain that those devices were shipped to these third parties directly from Google. If the circumstances were different, I too would tell these people to shut up, but, I totally understand their frustration.

If you happen to be more than ok with waiting, I applaud you! You clearly seem to think that you are entitled to a parade and a medal, which you certainly deserve without question. I suspect that some of you really aren't as patient as you claim, but instead, are lashing out at people on forums in an immature attempt to extinguish your own disappointment. And some of you are indeed saints who just enjoy telling people how they should feel about this situation. Anyway, it would probably be well received if you were to keep your self-righteous ramblings to yourself.

To all of the people whining:

I too ordered my tablet from Google hoping to be one of the first to get the tablet. I am among those who pre-ordered on the same day that the tablet was released. I have yet to get any shipping information.

But, instead of wasting my time whining and complaining on all fifty forums that I belong to (yes, I recognize some of you), I spent my time calling 12 Gamestop locations that I'd be willing to drive to. I asked every single one of them to put my name on a calling list to notify me in the event that someone has let their pre-order sit around for 48 hours, (and I was prepared to call back as the 48 hours approached), because the pre-order receipt states a condition that GS reserves the right to sell pre-ordered items after said period of time.

I also had the foresight to pre-order using a debit card that I load with money for specific purchases, and not one linked to my bank account. This enables me to have the ability to cancel my order before it ships (because if they don't get paid, they don't ship the item), even when I am told that it isn't able to be cancelled.

So, the moral of the story is that with a little resourcefulness and dedication, and some spare time that was created by not jumping online and boo-hooing, you too could be using the exact same signature (see below) as you will see below. (And yes, I know I that I am a jerk (see below) and didn't make a single friend by posting this (see below), and would never have written a reply such as this if my luck had been far worse on a Friday the 13th) PLEASE SEE BELOW.

Sent from my Non-Preordered, Purchased-Off-Of-The-Shelf-At-Sams-Club-On-The-13th 16gb Google Nexus 7!


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## number5toad

one more time.

if your expectation was that Google would ship your pre-ordered hardware to you early - before retailers, before other customers, whatever - that was not based on anything Google actually said.

if that expectation was based on shopping from other retailers, it was not rational to apply it to shopping from Google.

if your expectations were not met, it is not Google's fault. they have met, or are on track to meet, their announced delivery schedule - the one and only thing that should have advised your expectations.


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## Hellboy

One thing I learned is when someone feels wronged and in reality that have not been. They will never see it. People doesn't even look at this is new territory selling phones outright. They just started offering the GSM gnex phone not long ago. This is basically the first preorder that they have done that I can think of. No one can cut them any slack? Posters say how can they compete with apple when they do it right. Well lets look at apple and how long have they been around to as a few said gets it right? A very long time. I bet when apple first started I bet they had many issues on customer Service. To get stuff out on time. Maybe you forgot they went under because of poor business practices. How about give Google some time to figure stuff out and I bet they will do better. If not you could always get a 7 in ipad. Oh that's right they only do one size fits them.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## atka

Hellboy said:


> One thing I learned is when someone feels wronged and in reality that have not been. They will never see it. People doesn't even look at this is new territory selling phones outright. They just started offering the GSM gnex phone not long ago. This is basically the first preorder that they have done that I can think of. No one can cut them any slack? Posters say how can they compete with apple when they do it right. Well lets look at apple and how long have they been around to as a few said gets it right? A very long time. I bet when apple first started I bet they had many issues on customer Service. To get stuff out on time. Maybe you forgot they went under because of poor business practices. How about give Google some time to figure stuff out and I bet they will do better. If not you could always get a 7 in ipad. Oh that's right they only do one size fits them.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


Come on why should Google get any slack this isn't some small company who is surprised at the success of his product; this is Google a multi billion dollar international company. They just didn't handle this well and there is really no excuse. But it is typical Google run by engineers.


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## EsotericPunk

Can I nominate tsruggles as the winner of the thread?


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## Don Serrot

EsotericPunk said:


> Can I nominate tsruggles as the winner of the thread?


Too late, he already has the award over his fireplace.


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## Migamix

not even going to finish the thread
but at the risk of trolling

WHAAAA! WHA WHA WHAAAAAA!

just wait for it.... if a week past known shipping day and you don't get the device.... then complain.... otherwize.... grab your gnex, and go crackflash something... and chill the " " out

(GNexToro(HWv9)-TapTalk2)


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## rolandct

So to summarize the OP:
I ignored every other Google Android launch which have always been ambiguous in terms of release date and decided to impose a deadline on them yourself.

So that makes sense.....


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## tsruggles

EsotericPunk said:


> Too late, he already has the award over his fireplace.


I would only claim victory under one set of circumstances. If Google is as disorganized as they seem to be, then I would calculate there to exist the possibility of receiving my preordered tablet despite the fact that my card will be rejected. I mean it would only take the slightest oversight to let one go by accident. If this does happen I will hang that tablet over the fireplace with this thread permanently showing on its screen........after I get it bronzed!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## nhat

atka said:


> So to summarize the OP:
> I ignored every other Google Android launch which have always been ambiguous in terms of release date and decided to impose a deadline on them yourself.
> 
> So that makes sense.....


So we shouldn't expect a multi-billion dollar company to learn from their mistakes? How is that the least bit logical? Wouldn't it be safe to assume that Google would go back to the drawing board after seeing all the negative feedback? Or is it a smart business decision to keep on sucking?

"We sucked before so let's suck again with the next product launch. That's good business. Who cares if our customers are disappointed?"

Yeah, that makes sense.


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## Hellboy

nhat said:


> Exactly. Just because they fucked up one product launch doesn't excuse them from fucking up future launches. It's a good way to alienate your customer base at a time when you're pushing hardware through your own eStore.
> 
> Some people will say I don't care. Well good for you. Just because you don't care doesn't make our point of view invalid, nor is your point of view invalid.
> 
> I'll nominate myself then.
> 
> I have yet to a post trying to explain these things:
> 1. Tax on an out-of-state internet order
> 2. Allowing B&Ms to release their stock before they had even shipped their own stock
> 3. Not shipping orders in the order they were received
> 4. Not learning from past hardware launches
> 5. How is it possible to fuck this launch up when they had 6 months from the time the tablet was first mentioned? Does it take 6 months to figure out the logistics? There are companies that specialize in logistics that they could have easily partnered.
> 
> Notice how I made no mention of a release date? Everyone giving Google slack and portraying posts such as mine as whining are just being apologists. If Google couldn't handle the logistics, all they had to do was ask the B&Ms to hold onto their stock for a couple more days until they had their initial orders shipped out.
> 
> So we shouldn't expect a multi-billion dollar company to learn from their mistakes? How is that the least bit logical? Wouldn't it be safe to assume that Google would go back to the drawing board after seeing all the negative feedback? Or is it a smart business decision to keep on sucking?
> 
> "We sucked before so let's suck again with the next product launch. That's good business. Who cares if our customers are disappointed?"
> 
> Yeah, that makes sense.


So you never screwed up a day in your life? If you all are so upset with the way Google did things. Go buy apple and be done with it.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## number5toad

nhat said:


> I have yet to a post trying to explain these things:
> 1. Tax on an out-of-state internet order
> 2. Allowing B&Ms to release their stock before they had even shipped their own stock
> 3. Not shipping orders in the order they were received
> 4. Not learning from past hardware launches
> 5. How is it possible to fuck this launch up when they had 6 months from the time the tablet was first mentioned? Does it take 6 months to figure out the logistics? There are companies that specialize in logistics that they could have easily partnered.


1. you're always supposed to pay tax on out of state internet orders - if it's not levied at time of sale, you're supposed to claim it when you file taxes. 
2. retailers typically have clauses in their contracts allowing them to move pre-sold items after a certain date
3. pretty much the only valid complaint
4. which hardware launches exactly? 
5. for the most part, they're delivering on the schedule they actually set, the expectations of customers and their relation to reality notwithstanding


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## nhat

Hellboy said:


> So you never screwed up a day in your life? If you all are so upset with the way Google did things. Go buy apple and be done with it.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


Oh, I have. I just don't make the same mistake twice especially when my reputation is on the line. What CEO, in their right mind, would allow their company to make the same mistake twice? What CEO would allow their company to be so ill prepared for a product launch at a time when they're pushing to give their eStore credibility? They had over 6 months from the time this tablet was first mentioned. There is absolutely no excuse.

Is that all you got? Go buy Apple if I'm so upset with the way Google is handling their hardware launches? So weak lol. If you don't like reading our posts, don't click on the thread.


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## nhat

number5toad said:


> 1. you're always supposed to pay tax on out of state internet orders - if it's not levied at time of sale, you're supposed to claim it when you file taxes.
> 2. retailers typically have clauses in their contracts allowing them to move pre-sold items after a certain date
> 3. pretty much the only valid complaint
> 4. which hardware launches exactly?
> 5. for the most part, they're delivering on the schedule they actually set, the expectations of customers and their relation to reality notwithstanding


1. Technically, yes but http://www.nolo.com/...rnet-29919.html
2. Ok
3. Thanks
4. I don't know, this is my first device purchase directly from Google. Everyone keeps mentioning their past launches.
5. I agree but you have to agree that this was far from ideal

I'm receiving my Nexus 7 tomorrow and I've stated that I don't care that I'm receiving it after many other people. Perhaps I, and many others, hold Google to too high a level of expectation but can you fault us? There are too many successful hardware companies to learn from and I doubt UPS or Fedex would turn away the opportunity to handle their logistics. At this point, I'm just debating to debate while we all wait on our Nexus 7s to arrive.


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## number5toad

it's the customer's responsibility to pay taxes if the retailer didn't collect them, so long as the customer lives in a state that collects sales taxes. charging upfront is probably Google's way of making sure they're on the up and up. people might not like it, but I'm not gonna fault them for trying to keep their nose clean.

as for past Google hardware launches - I've only seen them mentioned in the negative. as in, they've never really had a launch like this, at all. they're a huge and rich company, sure, but they're not a hardware retailer...and this is the first device they've sold directly that went out not only through their own web store, but also through multiple national retail chains, in multiple nations. I know you don't think it's a fair excuse, but they were likely just not as prepared as they thought they were. but again - they are currently meeting, or on track to meet, the deadlines that they actually set.

I don't think they did everything perfectly...they seem to have been prepared to ship long before they actually did, their shipping order is all out of whack, and they seem to be delaying orders that included the case rather than shipping the tablet now and the case later. I just think the complaints are hugely out of proportion to the actual issues. I'd also wager _they_ don't think they did everything perfectly, and their next launch will be more telling in my opinion. the problems this time around seem to be a result of massive demand, which is one of those rare good problems.


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## Hellboy

nhat said:


> Oh, I have. I just don't make the same mistake twice especially when my reputation is on the line. What CEO, in their right mind, would allow their company to make the same mistake twice? What CEO would allow their company to be so ill prepared for a product launch at a time when they're pushing to give their eStore credibility? They had over 6 months from the time this tablet was first mentioned. There is absolutely no excuse.
> 
> Is that all you got? Go buy Apple if I'm so upset with the way Google is handling their hardware launches? So weak lol. If you don't like reading our posts, don't click on the thread.


I am just offering you a solution if Google upsets you so much there are other companies out there like apple that you my try. You might have a better shopping experience with them. So how is that weak. Just shoes you want to just complain to hear yourself complain. You don't want to listen to options.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## nhat

Hellboy said:


> I am just offering you a solution if Google upsets you so much there are other companies out there like apple that you my try. You might have a better shopping experience with them. So how is that weak. Just shoes you want to just complain to hear yourself complain. You don't want to listen to options.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


How is that a solution? I want a Nexus 7, not an iPad. What you're offering is an alternative which I'm not interested in. I would definitely have a better shopping experience with them, unfortunately they won't sell me a Nexus 7. Next time, I'll wait for B&Ms to sell Google hardware since a few people here think it's safe to assume that Google will continue to mess up their product launches. Hopefully, they prove us all wrong with the launch of the next Nexus phone and tablet.

Did you not read my posts stating that I'm not upset? I'm confused by how poorly Google handled this product launch. I'm asking questions in hopes of getting rational explanations. I've stated over and over that I don't care that I'm receiving my Nexus 7 days after other people, it just so happens that the manner in which Google has handled this launch is inexcusable. The excuse that Google isn't a hardware company that isn't used to a product launch of this scale is weak at best. It's 2012, there are too many successful companies to use as examples on what to do and how to handle a product launch. I understand both opinions on the matter, however I don't think it's fair to Google nor consumers to give them a free pass just because they're not a hardware company.


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## nhat

Speaking of sales tax, http://www.bgr.com/2012/07/16/amazon-sales-tax-nj-online-retailers/



> In the past there have been numerous advantages when ordering from online retailers like Amazon. Along with lower prices and free shipping, the majority of states do not charge sales tax on purchases unless a company has a physical location within the state. More and more states are attempting to change this, however. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie recently reached an agreement with Amazon that will see the state collect sales taxes on online purchases beginning in July 2013, _The Wall Street Journal_ reported. The governor called the taxation of online sales "an important issue to all the nation's governors" and he endorses federal legislation that would give all states authority to tax online retailers, a move that could revitalize traditional brick-and-mortar retailers and produce $23 billion in new annual revenue.
> Democrats and Republicans alike are attempting to do just that, and are pushing a bill that gives states the authority to collect sales tax from online companies. "The handwriting is on the wall that states will collect sales taxes on online purchases," said Sen. Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican who supports the bill. "This is going to happen-if not this year, then definitely by next year."
> The news isn't all bad for consumers, though. Amazon is believed to be in the process of rolling out same-day shipping on purchases made in states where it has distribution facilities. The retailer's facilities are also estimated to create at least 1,500 full-time jobs, as well as "thousands" of seasonal, part-time and construction jobs. By 2014, Amazon customers will pay sales taxes in at least 13 states that account for nearly half of the U.S. population.


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## tsruggles

I'd like to get my Zen on here. My lengthy post was addressed to both the people before and after my first thread reply. I actually think that those of you replying after me should have been able to release your anger prior to taking the keyboard into your own hands.

Here's the facts. What is is what is. That's right, say it again, make it your mantra. "What is, is what is". No matter what you think about this situation, you can't change it. You all will get your tablets. I know, it's not fair and I realize that the Geneva convention really has some holes that need to be filled.

I'd assume that you all are well fed, have a roof over your head, have some sort of income and are not poverty stricken. That is a broad assumption based on the fact that you are active on a forum that you must access via purchased technology.

There may be some of you who are Americans that are poverty stricken yet you spend your welfare benefits on electronics, alcohol, tobacco and tattoos. That alone should make you incredibly grateful. In any event, why not take a step back and face some of the hard facts.

1) You will get your tablet before it is outdated.

2) Your tablet will become outdated someday and you won't care about it anymore.

3) You are ready to march on Google HQ with your torches and pitchforks and hang Larry Page for this travesty, yet you eat genetically modified foods which are created by corporations that put family farms out of business, and that wreak havoc on your body. And, you pay oil companies way too much for their products. These two examples alone should have people up in arms, rioting in the streets and doing something about the problem. Yet you probably think that gmo's are no big deal and you just bitch a little to the guy next to you at the pumps when gas goes up a few cents.

4) You are clearly not grateful that you don't have to hunt for and grow your own food, or weave your own clothing, or build your own homes.

I mean seriously people! Let's get a little bit of a clearer perspective on life and see where this issue stacks up in the grand scheme of things.

We live in a world that can provide us with some incredible things. We are lucky enough to live in perhaps the most exciting time in human history. Yet some of you people are out there reproducing, creating mini bitchers that will grow up just like you. If your population ends up dominating the human race, well, we are all doomed.

Pull your heads out of your assess, grow up a little and for the love of God, will someone please lock down this thread?

Thank you and have a nice day!

Sent from my Nexus 7 that I got before you did, using Tapatalk 2


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## Hellboy

People are never happy with what they have. They always want more.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## tsruggles

Hellboy said:


> People are never happy with what they have. They always want more.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


I'm happy because I got my tablet on the 13th. Otherwise I'd be whining and moaning with the best of them. But, since I have mine already, life is looking pretty good from my point of view!

Swyped from my three day old Nexus 7 that I got before you did using Tapatalk 2 on this really nice tablet that you don't have yet.


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## Panzer

I am sick of just reading about my tablet I want it NOW.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RootzWiki


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## nhat

Hellboy said:


> People are never happy with what they have. They always want more.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


Why would anyone settle for less?


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## dspcap

I finally went out and bought mine at Sam's Club today, tired of waiting for google to ship it. It's NICE !!!


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## EniGmA1987

altimax98 said:


> The Nexus 7 was supposed to be your answer to the iPad.


No it wasnt.


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## GarnetandBlack

tsruggles said:


> I'd like to get my Zen on here. My lengthy post was addressed to both the people before and after my first thread reply. I actually think that those of you replying after me should have been able to release your anger prior to taking the keyboard into your own hands.
> 
> Here's the facts. What is is what is. That's right, say it again, make it your mantra. "What is, is what is". No matter what you think about this situation, you can't change it. You all will get your tablets. I know, it's not fair and I realize that the Geneva convention really has some holes that need to be filled.
> 
> I'd assume that you all are well fed, have a roof over your head, have some sort of income and are not poverty stricken. That is a broad assumption based on the fact that you are active on a forum that you must access via purchased technology.
> 
> There may be some of you who are Americans that are poverty stricken yet you spend your welfare benefits on electronics, alcohol, tobacco and tattoos. That alone should make you incredibly grateful. In any event, why not take a step back and face some of the hard facts.
> 
> 1) You will get your tablet before it is outdated.
> 
> 2) Your tablet will become outdated someday and you won't care about it anymore.
> 
> 3) You are ready to march on Google HQ with your torches and pitchforks and hang Larry Page for this travesty, yet you eat genetically modified foods which are created by corporations that put family farms out of business, and that wreak havoc on your body. And, you pay oil companies way too much for their products. These two examples alone should have people up in arms, rioting in the streets and doing something about the problem. Yet you probably think that gmo's are no big deal and you just bitch a little to the guy next to you at the pumps when gas goes up a few cents.
> 
> 4) You are clearly not grateful that you don't have to hunt for and grow your own food, or weave your own clothing, or build your own homes.
> 
> I mean seriously people! Let's get a little bit of a clearer perspective on life and see where this issue stacks up in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> We live in a world that can provide us with some incredible things. We are lucky enough to live in perhaps the most exciting time in human history. Yet some of you people are out there reproducing, creating mini bitchers that will grow up just like you. If your population ends up dominating the human race, well, we are all doomed.
> 
> Pull your heads out of your assess, grow up a little and for the love of God, will someone please lock down this thread?
> 
> Thank you and have a nice day!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 that I got before you did, using Tapatalk 2


Wow... Aren't you bitching about the bitchers? And not only that, but you put some serious effort and thought into it... Pot, meet kettle?


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## sfreemanoh

tsruggles said:


> I'd like to get my Zen on here. My lengthy post was addressed to both the people before and after my first thread reply. I actually think that those of you replying after me should have been able to release your anger prior to taking the keyboard into your own hands.
> 
> Here's the facts. What is is what is. That's right, say it again, make it your mantra. "What is, is what is". No matter what you think about this situation, you can't change it. You all will get your tablets. I know, it's not fair and I realize that the Geneva convention really has some holes that need to be filled.
> 
> I'd assume that you all are well fed, have a roof over your head, have some sort of income and are not poverty stricken. That is a broad assumption based on the fact that you are active on a forum that you must access via purchased technology.
> 
> There may be some of you who are Americans that are poverty stricken yet you spend your welfare benefits on electronics, alcohol, tobacco and tattoos. That alone should make you incredibly grateful. In any event, why not take a step back and face some of the hard facts.
> 
> 1) You will get your tablet before it is outdated.
> 
> 2) Your tablet will become outdated someday and you won't care about it anymore.
> 
> 3) You are ready to march on Google HQ with your torches and pitchforks and hang Larry Page for this travesty, yet you eat genetically modified foods which are created by corporations that put family farms out of business, and that wreak havoc on your body. And, you pay oil companies way too much for their products. These two examples alone should have people up in arms, rioting in the streets and doing something about the problem. Yet you probably think that gmo's are no big deal and you just bitch a little to the guy next to you at the pumps when gas goes up a few cents.
> 
> 4) You are clearly not grateful that you don't have to hunt for and grow your own food, or weave your own clothing, or build your own homes.
> 
> I mean seriously people! Let's get a little bit of a clearer perspective on life and see where this issue stacks up in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> We live in a world that can provide us with some incredible things. We are lucky enough to live in perhaps the most exciting time in human history. Yet some of you people are out there reproducing, creating mini bitchers that will grow up just like you. If your population ends up dominating the human race, well, we are all doomed.
> 
> Pull your heads out of your assess, grow up a little and for the love of God, will someone please lock down this thread?
> 
> Thank you and have a nice day!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 that I got before you did, using Tapatalk 2


So basically...since we don't live in a 3rd world country, or the 1500's, we should just stop complaining about everything and everything? Really? Someone will make their future partner (or existing, who knows) a very nice doormat one day.


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## yarly

I think his very long and lengthy post is one should have patience and put their wants and needs in perspective with the wants/needs of many and the world and feel grateful for what they are able to complain about versus what those in some countries would be disgruntled about. It's okay to complain and feel annoyed when companies don't do what you paid them to do, but those complaint should be lodged at the company, not on some random internet forum. Otherwise, you look like you have a bad case of #firstworldproblems.


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## number5toad

yes.

I've sent Google god only knows how much feedback over the years, testing and using their products, and I've sent them half a dozen emails since the whole shipping process began. if you're upset about the way it's gone down, you should really do the same.


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## GarnetandBlack

number5toad said:


> yes.
> 
> I've sent Google god only knows how much feedback over the years, testing and using their products, and I've sent them half a dozen emails since the whole shipping process began. if you're upset about the way it's gone down, you should really do the same.


I have. But I also have no problem commiserating with like-minded forum goers here... Not that I'm tapping out lengthy diatribes on the subject or anything.


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## number5toad

hell, commiserating is what forums are for, as far as I'm concerned.

like I said before, I only think the complaints are way out of proportion to the problems.


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## skynet11

Ranting here only starts drama, as we see from the "quit whining" posts and the "we have every right to complain" posts. Complaining to Google might not bring you instant satisfaction, but it'll accomplish more than arguing with each other here.


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## number5toad

listen, it's not that I don't agree with your post, it's that I'm not sure I can trust anything posted from an account named "skynet". you understand.


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## sfreemanoh

I agree, no more ranting. In fact, no more sharing anything personal, or ROM/app recommendations, or anything like that, as someone else might not agree and start drama. /sarcasm

I'm not saying everyone should bitch and complain to their hearts content...just that people are GOING to, regardless, and they need to do it in a civilized way, and understand not everyone is going to feel the same way they do.


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## yarly

Yes, please make this a discussion and not an argument. I hate to have to lock the thread, but it will happen if people cannot control themselves.


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## dspcap

yarly said:


> Yes, please make this a discussion and not an argument. I hate to have to lock the thread, but it will happen if people cannot control themselves.


I can't believe this thread is still going on.... I vote lock it.


----------

