# Lets have a little chat about recent events!



## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

Okay so there has been a lot of speculation and commenting on the events of yesterday. Some of the conclusions that have been draw up have absolutely no factual basis behind them. So on that note I figured I would make a post explaining some of what happened yesterday, to clear the air a bit.

Yesterday a user made comments in DT's thread claiming that his roms are cm9 kangs among other things. This of course started a huge flame war in DT's thread. Mustang302lx and myself we're online at the time,cleaning up the drama fest that ensued afterwards. Once the arguments stopped. DT made a decision on his own to stop making/supporting his roms. So for the record we(staff) know almost just as much as you guys do. He may have had other reasons for leaving the scene. But that would have to be something you would have to ask him. Because as far as I know, none of our staff has had a chance to talk to him yet. Because most of our staff is at CES.. And the rest of us work. Now you can also read DT's statement here http://rootzwiki.com...post__p__309578

DT has always been a great dev here. Heck iv even run his roms myself many times. And as far as i'm concerned, he credited where it was needed. Whether I missed something or not, its beside the point, because now he made the decision to stop dev'ing regardless. That decision had nothing to do with rootz staff. At no point did we get mad at him or tell him he needed to do this or do that....OR DELETE HIS THREAD. So we did what we had to and merely hid the topic from the public for a bit while the thread was cleaned up. And once it was, we made it view able to the public again. Then of course the thread was locked to minimize more drama. Once it calmed down we reopened it. So now we are where we are. We have left his thread open for your comments. Please keep them civil and unbiased. I dont want to see anymore drama happening in that thread or any new threads made pertaining to yesterdays events. Also I would like to add...that we didnt not clean up posts to make it look as if the user who made the accusations was correct. We did not take sides. WE DELETED ALL DRAMA POSTS RELATED TO THE ISSUE.

Now i'd also like to take this moment to say to those of you that think calling us(Rootz) names and comparing us to other forums. And saying stuff like "I cant believe that rootz did this" doesn't change anything. And you are also completely wrong in making comments like that. It would be smart for you to read and find out the facts before making such comments. We here at Rootz want to see this community flourish and in no way would we want to run off a developer. We clean up threads when they are needed and we try to keep the peace. We try not to take sides and handle things the best we can(but everything cant always be sunshine and roses). So in the light of the events of yesterday, lets think what we want to think and move forward as the android community we are. And continue doing what we love.

DT was a great dev, and highly respected in the android community, and he will be missed. But there are still other roms out there and it isn't the end of the world. I would recommend people try out some of the other roms and see how you like them. Doesn't hurt to try.

If anyone has anymore questions or comments ill leave this thread unlocked for them. But lets keep it civil. I wont be going into specifics on names or other details. So dont even bother asking those kind of questions. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Later.


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## P-bottie (Dec 24, 2011)

It's kind of odd how attached we get to our custom ROM's. I tried running a few and found Roman's AOKP to be my favorite. I'd be pretty bummed if he left, but there are lots of good ROM's and devs out there to choose from. Roman's ROM always seems to have the most new features to and he updates very frequently. Try out AOKP and see if that doesn't sate those tears of sadness. Look at this as an opportunity to try something new.


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## Jaxidian (Jun 6, 2011)

I have a comment that I think needs to be said and understood well.

We all understand that rom developers take a lot of pride in what they work tirelessly to do: make free stuff for other people with maybe making enough in donations to cover their caffeine while making that free stuff. That's completely understandable. Also understandable is when said developer feels cheated when somebody else steals their product. Sometimes this happens - it's stolen. Other times it's simply reused and the reusing developer mistakenly forgets to credit the creator. And other times, it's done with permission and purposely not credited (because the creator said it was okay).

*So what should you do when you find content that isn't properly being credited?*
You should do one of two things:
1. Contact the creating or borrowing developer *privately* (meaning NOT in the forums but on GTalk or via PMs or email or something) and ask what's going on. If there's something wrong, suggest that it be corrected.
2. If you fail with option 1) or choose to skip that option, simply report the post with the offending content and let the staff here handle the situation. We take every credible claim seriously and investigate it. We'll do the work for you and thank you for calling it to our attention! It's usually just a mistake and we'll help see the mistake be fixed.

*So what should you NOT do?*
For the love of everything good, *DO NOT POST PUBLICLY ABOUT IT!!!* Why? Go back and read the first paragraph here. There are MANY possibilities that you may not be accounting for. Additionally, public posts of this nature only cause major problems. In this case, a developer felt the need to leave our community before any investigation could really take place. Additionally, we (the collective "we" meaning all of us Rootz users) have now hurt and offended many others within our community. Additionally, I'm not sure about the other mods but I personally missed half a day of work dealing with the aftermath of what happened, didn't spend much time with my wife after work because of it, and didn't get to sleep until 4am. I had to get up at 5:30am for work. Trust me, I was pretty grumpy. So if for no other reason than this: don't do it because I get grumpy.

Thanks,
-Jax


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> I have a comment that I think needs to be said and understood well.
> 
> We all understand that rom developers take a lot of pride in what they work tirelessly to do: make free stuff for other people with maybe making enough in donations to cover their caffeine while making that free stuff. That's completely understandable. Also understandable is when said developer feels cheated when somebody else steals their product. Sometimes this happens - it's stolen. Other times it's simply reused and the reusing developer mistakenly forgets to credit the creator. And other times, it's done with permission and purposely not credited (because the creator said it was okay).
> 
> ...


Thanks for this add-on, you made some good points there.


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

P-bottie said:


> It's kind of odd how attached we get to our custom ROM's. I tried running a few and found Roman's AOKP to be my favorite. I'd be pretty bummed if he left, but there are lots of good ROM's and devs out there to choose from. Roman's ROM always seems to have the most new features to and he updates very frequently. Try out AOKP and see if that doesn't sate those tears of sadness. Look at this as an opportunity to try something new.


i agree, i love his rom. been running it for about a week now. and keep swapping out and coming back


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## prometheus (Jul 29, 2011)

I appreciate the post and that you guys are trying to stay in front of these types of issues. Anytime you have a large community these types of misunderstandings are bound to happen. I know it can be a pain, but I'm glad to see Rootz staff staying on top of this and maintaining transparency with their community.


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## Brenardo (Jul 18, 2011)

So what is gonna be done? Nothing? If so then it would seem like there is a hint of favoritism....

The truth is slowly coming to light and the fact remains that a select few were directly related to DT leaving this forum as well as his site going down.

This seems unacceptable from an outsider's POV.


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## 2defmouze (Oct 12, 2011)

Brenardo said:


> So what is gonna be done? Nothing? If so then it would seem like there is a hint of favoritism....
> 
> The truth is slowly coming to light and the fact remains that a select few were directly related to DT leaving this forum as well as his site going down.
> 
> This seems unacceptable from an outsider's POV.


Did you read the posts above? Nobody made DT leave. It was his choice. No investigation was completed. He shut down his site and he shut down his twitter, nobody else did that to him, ok?

I love DT and hope to god he comes back... but you need to understand what happened and stop trying to find someone to blame who doesn't deserve it.


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

Brenardo said:


> So what is gonna be done? Nothing? If so then it would seem like there is a hint of favoritism....
> 
> The truth is slowly coming to light and the fact remains that a select few were directly related to DT leaving this forum as well as his site going down.
> 
> This seems unacceptable from an outsider's POV.


We dont know yet. We're still making decisions on what will be done. Its obvious what you want to happen. And again it goes back to people not knowing both sides of the story....and us wanting to make sure we make the right decision on things.

Also on the comment of favoritism. That goes both ways...if we did what you want done...then people could still sit here and say "your favoritism is toward DT" when they dont agree with the decision.

You have to understand that people dont always agree on things and we have to be the ones in the middle of issues like this and decide the best way to handle it to make as many people as we can happy.


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## sublimaze (Nov 17, 2011)

Well this isn't the kind of news I was hoping to see this morning. DT seemed to be pretty level-headed and I never once saw him fly off the handle, so he must have had a good reason to bail. He will be missed around here.


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## NonBeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

How is it favoritism? DT wasn't banned, he left. Also you don't really know what happened behind the scenes so could you do everyone a favor and stop speculating.

Sent from my ADR6400L using RootzWiki


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## kdkinc (Jun 7, 2011)

Sorry to see any developer leave it's a demanding and sometimes thankless hobby (job).
Iv'e seen this happen many times before.
One thing that seems interesting too me is that we loose a great developer but also seem to gain another talented developer the same day.
I am referring to "codenamedroid" just seems interesting. bgill55 once became evidence for a time just to get away but not really get away.

Hope i'm correct ???


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## CyDetrakD (Jun 29, 2011)

Axiom is still the king of roms for this phone no disrespect towards others devs but battery life and overall performance is where DT's roms shined. I've flashed most of them and nothing compares. I'm hoping he ignores the haters and comes back fighting full force and if not I'll be on aokp using my extended battery and my stock one until cm9 is official. Is there a specific dev already chosen to handle the port for our phones yet?


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

CyDetrakD said:


> Axiom is still the king of roms for this phone no disrespect towards others devs but battery life and overall performance is where DT's roms shined. I've flashed most of them and nothing compares. I'm hoping he ignores the haters and comes back fighting full force and if not I'll be on aokp using my extended battery and my stock one until cm9 is official. Is there a specific dev already chosen to handle the port for our phones yet?


for cm9?


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## nocoast (Oct 17, 2011)

Brenardo said:


> Did you read the posts above? Nobody made DT leave. It was his choice. No investigation was completed. He shut down his site and he shut down his twitter, nobody else did that to him, ok?
> 
> I love DT and hope to god he comes back... but you need to understand what happened and stop trying to find someone to blame who doesn't deserve it.


Brenardo is not necessarily uninformed...


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## nocoast (Oct 17, 2011)

NonBeliever said:


> How is it favoritism? DT wasn't banned, he left. Also you don't really know what happened behind the scenes so could you do everyone a favor and stop speculating.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using RootzWiki


Im gonna have to say that you are right. People should stop speculating. That said in the name of truth favoritism was a topic discussed by someone yesterday night in a late night chat...he posted about it in the axiom thread. Was very eye opening...


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## Friend-O (Dec 29, 2011)

nocoast said:


> Brenardo is not necessarily uninformed...


Hmmm... Interesting...


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## redoregon (Jan 1, 2012)

I've spent many years as a sysop on different BBSs, and run some forums now, so I feel for ya. But I have one issue.

When a flamewar breaks out, yes, it needs to be stopped. But hiding the participants punishes those who were hurt while letting the instigator get away with it.

IMHO, it would be beneficial to know who attacked DT and set him off, simply to know who not to support in the future.

Nuff said.


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

redoregon said:


> I've spent many years as a sysop on different BBSs, and run some forums now, so I feel for ya. But I have one issue.
> 
> When a flamewar breaks out, yes, it needs to be stopped. But hiding the participants punishes those who were hurt while letting the instigator get away with it.
> 
> ...


because im not going to take sides...and create problems for either party....you can find out names by reading the threads....mainly the actual Axi0m thread.


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## BMc08GT (Jun 23, 2011)

Jaxidian said:


> I have a comment that I think needs to be said and understood well.
> 
> We all understand that rom developers take a lot of pride in what they work tirelessly to do: make free stuff for other people with maybe making enough in donations to cover their caffeine while making that free stuff. That's completely understandable. Also understandable is when said developer feels cheated when somebody else steals their product. Sometimes this happens - it's stolen. Other times it's simply reused and the reusing developer mistakenly forgets to credit the creator. And other times, it's done with permission and purposely not credited (because the creator said it was okay).
> 
> ...


Awesome post Jax. For anyone who does not what to do in this situation refer to this post for a basic guideline AND also see the forum rules re: this subject. The rules are in place for a reason people

Sent from my SCH-I500 using RootzWiki


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## sophware (Dec 21, 2011)

Thanks for being more transparent and providing some explanation. In particular, thanks for offering to chat about it.

A few questions:

1. When people flame each other, do you sit back and eat popcorn or do you censor the posts?
2. Have you considered leaving the locked thread un-hidden during the cleanup of dramatic posts?
3. Is it difficult to categorically define a post as "drama," and therefore subject it to censorship? How is it defined and decided?
4. In response to "I cant believe that rootz did this" you say, "you are also completely wrong in making comments like that." Are you saying posters are not allowed to provide feedback that is negative regarding moderator/ admin actions?
5. "It would be smart for you to read and find out the facts before making such comments." How long should we wait for the facts? Do only moderator/admin posts count as facts?
6. Why is one admin naming names and the other not ("nocoast claims" in this post: post 192)?
7. Regarding that same post (192, from another thread), are you also continuing to get pissed off, more and more?
8. I have several more, but realize I'm sounding like a douche. Please pick and choose the most civil of my questions.

Thank you for any questions you choose to answer. It's not easy running a forum like this. You all have been very successful creating a place for people to easily access information that helps promote people's ownership of their information and tools. The work you are helping happen is crucial for innovation, having fun with technology, and learning how things work. RootzWiki is a success and an example for all of us.

If there is any value to the above questions, it is to make you and RootzWiki as a whole even more successful.



SyNiK4L said:


> Okay so there has been a lot of speculation and commenting on the events of yesterday. Some of the conclusions that have been draw up have absolutely no factual basis behind them. So on that note I figured I would make a post explaining some of what happened yesterday, to clear the air a bit.
> 
> Yesterday a user made comments in DT's thread claiming that his roms are cm9 kangs among other things. This of course started a huge flame war in DT's thread. Mustang302lx and myself we're online at the time,cleaning up the drama fest that ensued afterwards. Once the arguments stopped. DT made a decision on his own to stop making/supporting his roms. So for the record we(staff) know almost just as much as you guys do. He may have had other reasons for leaving the scene. But that would have to be something you would have to ask him. Because as far as I know, none of our staff has had a chance to talk to him yet. Because most of our staff is at CES.. And the rest of us work. Now you can also read DT's statement here http://rootzwiki.com...post__p__309578
> 
> ...


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## sophware (Dec 21, 2011)

Wow. Now the "so what now" thread seems to be AWOL. You guys have a great thing going here. As you take measures to keep it good, are you helping or hurting?

I apologize in advance if it is an anomaly or my error that I can't find the post I linked to or its thread.

My understanding is that anything a mob gets its hands on will be criticized by a loud and noticeable audience. If those detractors deserve to be ignored and are so ignored, progress goes on. RootzWiki has that opportunity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect



sophware said:


> Thanks for being more transparent and providing some explanation. In particular, thanks for offering to chat about it.
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> ...


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## Mustang302LX (Jun 28, 2011)

sophware said:


> Thanks for being more transparent and providing some explanation. In particular, thanks for offering to chat about it.
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> ...


A few answers....

1) We don't sit back and watch flame wars. We try to end it ASAP and remove all posts involved as it wastes space and ruins threads.
2) If the madness isn't overly crazy we can leave the thread unlocked. As I was taking flames out of the post yesterday people were still quoting and replying. This makes it very hard to keep the drama out. Locking allows us to remove the posts and hopefully end the situation.
3) It is difficult for sure. We take a look at the topic of the thread and if the post deviates way off track we try to get the topic back on track. Once name calling and flaming starts it's a no brainer.
4) Always provide feedback on mods if you feel we are not doing the right thing. The comment was meant if you don't know the full situation then don't just assume we aren't doing the right thing and the best for the community here.
5) Of course we aren't the only ones who state facts. We simply want people to fully understand a situation before jumping on someones case for something. Always know the situation before waging attacks (but don't wage attacks here lol).
6) Not sure but we all work as you all do and keeping us all on the same page can be tough at times. We are only human afterall.
7) We are not pissed off. We all signed up to be mods/admins and we love doing just that.

Hopefully this helps somewhat...


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## Caveman419 (Jun 10, 2011)

I don't mean to speak negatively, but you have an admin with animations that show that he enjoys sitting back and enjoying the show when people are flaming each other? It sounds like mixed messages are being sent here. Or maybe I am just old and not as "Cool" as some of you (God I hope so).


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## poontab (Jun 7, 2011)

Caveman419 said:


> Or maybe I am just old and not as "Cool" as some of you (God I hope so).


See above


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## Caveman419 (Jun 10, 2011)

Yes really....seems a lottle more than immature to me. Am I not allowed to have that opinion (or voice it)?


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

Caveman419 said:


> I don't mean to speak negatively, but you have an admin with animations that show that he enjoys sitting back and enjoying the show when people are flaming each other? It sounds like mixed messages are being sent here. Or maybe I am just old and not as "Cool" as some of you (God I hope so).


that is a joke....lol...have you not heard of the popcorn gifs?


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## poontab (Jun 7, 2011)

Caveman419 said:


> Am I not allowed to have that opinion (or voice it)?


Are you not doing that now?


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

sophware said:


> Thanks for being more transparent and providing some explanation. In particular, thanks for offering to chat about it.
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> ...


1. I clean up threads....the popcorn stuff is supposed to just be funny.
2. No because then it makes it harder to clean up when people are constantly adding to our work load
3. No its not hard...if it continues to bring a post off topic and create arguments then its drama
4. No i am saying that people should read before making accusations about things that they dont know about.
5. Until you know what your talking about.
6. I dont know that post isnt there...
7. Getting pissed that people are not reading and learning whats up just spouting off about stuff.


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## Caveman419 (Jun 10, 2011)

I am just saying that it is very hard to take the "Admin" seriously with those. The impression that I get is that you enjoy/encourage that type of behavior. You want your users to be mature, then maybe it should start with you acting a litlle more mature (God, you make me sound like my father....and I hate that!!). Again, I just must be to old (have a daughter your age).


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

Caveman419 said:


> I am just saying that it is very hard to take the "Admin" seriously with those. The impression that I get is that you enjoy/encourage that type of behavior. You want your users to be mature, then maybe it should start with you acting a litlle more mature (God, you make me sound like my father....and I hate that!!). Again, I just must be to old (have a daughter your age).


Eh its just a joke. I think animated .gifs are a little different than people not reading and making accusations.

Either way this is not really what this thread is about.


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## sophware (Dec 21, 2011)

Well, jokes are in the eye of the beholder. It is quite possible Caveman419 and I are in the minority not finding it funny at all. It's a pretty used up meme (even "old" in 4chan or Reddit terms). Possibly more important, it strongly implies that flame wars just make fools of themselves while the rest of us just sit back and laugh. If so (and I totally agree) moderation is almost never needed. If not, I apologize for misunderstanding.

A bit boldly, let me suggest that the joke is particularly weak if it goes along with deleting posts and is even being made by the person censoring the flames.

Given the role you play, the events going on, the fact that the joke has been beaten to death for some of us, and the fact that different people have different senses of humor, do you think some people might be confused by this distracting, visually arresting sig?

You all are doing some good things to respond to and get past this drama. Thank you. If you can keep your sense of humor, style, and authenticity while improving your response, please do so. If not, I for one will probably stick around anyway. This is a great place.



SyNiK4L said:


> that is a joke....lol...have you not heard of the popcorn gifs?


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## Caveman419 (Jun 10, 2011)

poontab said:


> I don't know what to tell you other than it's harmless. Living up to an entire forums varying standards of maturity is an impossible feat.
> 
> Are you not doing that now?


And met with your sighs. I say this as politely as possible, but my original comment was not directed towards you.


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## nhat (Aug 21, 2011)

i think the whole situation is laughable. this dev accuses that dev of kanging, when in the grand scheme of things every dev is a kanger to some degree. however, some devs give credit where credit is due while others want to feel superior or attempt to knock others down. all your shit smells the same whether you like it or not.

this is why i respect devs that don't make accusations nor care what another dev does and just go about their business because they realize that there's no point in stirring up drama. i stated in the best rom poll thread that every rom and kernel currently available is generally the same and one dev thought his shit didn't stink like the others. there's only so much you can do to differentiate your rom from another. every rom is built from 4.0.3 source with bits and pieces kanged from cm9 and a dev's own personal tweaks and twists.

until all devs realize this, the community will stay the same: splintered and full of drama. some already have and don't care that their shit stinks like all the rest. this isn't meant to be an attack on devs, it's just how i see things. it's not about who is the best, every dev is doing this for fun and some people just take all the fun out of it.


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## Brenardo (Jul 18, 2011)

What did DT do that was against the rules.... no is and always will be trouble

Sent from my Xoom using RootzWiki


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## poontab (Jun 7, 2011)

Caveman419 said:


> ....Again, I just must be to old....


 I don't think age has anything to do with it.


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## sophware (Dec 21, 2011)

Didn't SyNiK4L, in the OP here, specifically refrain from saying DT did anything against the rules? DT chose on his own to seclude himself from the drama and accusations here.



Brenardo said:


> What did DT do that was against the rules.... no is and always will be trouble
> 
> Sent from my Xoom using RootzWiki


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## Brenardo (Jul 18, 2011)

Reread his response to me a page or two back... then maybe my statement will make a wee bit more sense to ya.

Sent from my Xoom using RootzWiki


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

Brenardo said:


> Reread his response to me a page or two back... then maybe my statement will make a wee bit more sense to ya.
> 
> Sent from my Xoom using RootzWiki


i said nothing about DT doing anything wrong...


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## Brenardo (Jul 18, 2011)

I do not enjoy this bullcrap. But I will say I will not stand down from something I believe is not right.

I hate to see "The Community" come to this but it is only from the actions of a select few that this shitstorm has errupted. And it will take the actions of a totally different few to extinguish this uproar of loyal DT fans and supporters.

Sent from my Xoom using RootzWiki


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## xkape (Aug 28, 2011)

Im going to side with sop and caveman... but hey.. its your site.. do what you want.


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## Brenardo (Jul 18, 2011)

I agree absolutely. I am speaking more in terms of the word favoritism.

Sent from my Xoom using RootzWiki


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## SyNiK4L (Jun 7, 2011)

Brenardo said:


> I do not enjoy this bullcrap. But I will say I will not stand down from something I believe is not right.
> 
> I hate to see "The Community" come to this but it is only from the actions of a select few that this shitstorm has errupted. And it will take the actions of a totally different few to extinguish this uproar of loyal DT fans and supporters.
> 
> Sent from my Xoom using RootzWiki


K cool lets just drop it now...and go back to the normal this and that. Shoulda locked this thread immediately. Was only supposed to be about the issue at hand...not my signature, not to make another venue for arguing...just to inform the people that wanted some kind of answers. Sorry it didnt work that way.


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