# Locked Bootloader on 4G devices illegal?



## Nicelysedated (Dec 24, 2011)

http://www.talkandroid.com/68708-why-verizon-shouldnt-be-locking-some-bootloaders-and-what-you-can-do-to-help/?utm_source=feedburner-ta&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AndroidNewsGoogleAndroidForums+%28Android+News%2C+Rumours%2C+and+Updates%29#.TvvA9tRSTlk

After reading this article I think I will submit a complaint to the FCC. Worse case scenario I waste a little time. If enough people do this who knows.....


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## thecaptain0220 (Jun 7, 2011)

I see this brought up a lot but nothing ever seems to come from it. I do agree that it seems like this might be the case but it doesn't seem to matter.


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## Bobster22388 (Oct 8, 2011)

I filed a complaint. I figure they have to at least see it maybe, who knows, but I'm willing to give anything a shot at this point.


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## benefit14snake (Nov 28, 2011)

I called verizon and politely asked them to unlock my bootloader. When they told me they couldnt i told them I was filing with the FCC and i did.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## UrbanBounca (Aug 9, 2011)

benefit14snake said:


> I called verizon and politely asked them to unlock my bootloader. When they told me they couldnt i told them I was filing with the FCC and i did.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


They could care less.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk


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## skatastic (Aug 30, 2011)

So according to the article with regard to the thunderbolt htc was told by vz to lock the boot loader but isn't locking boot loaders motorola's idea which means it isn't vz's fault at least with respect to bionics? That's a question I don't know the answer for sure. Assuming vz is the sole reason that moto locked the boot loader then it would probably be more effective for someone to sue vz over it. I'm not a lawyer but it seems like a class action suit would be best to actually effectuate change vs just a single case. Of course the problem with law suits is you have to show damages. They may have violated the law but if you can't show damages then I'm not sure how effective it would be.


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## SonicJoe (Dec 24, 2011)

I don't see anything that prevents locking the bootloader in those regulations. It requires Verizon to not throttle bandwidth, and to not restrict services, but locking the bootloader has nothing to do with normal device functionality. Now, those who feel blocking certain applications (like Wifi Tether, EasyTether, etc.) are limiting functionality may have a case...


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## BootAnimator (Jun 10, 2011)

I can understand wanting to block tethering. Im alright with that. But what about other features that are available in an open source platform that we currently don't have access to? Specifically kernel features. I really don't know what even 1/10th of these things are, but why am I being restricted? I like to view it as a fundamental issue. Not a tit-for-tat argument. As far as the legal issue goes, I'm no lawyer either, but just because no damages have been incurred, doesn't mean a violation hasn't been committed. There must be consequences for laws. If not, then the laws are worthless. 
Imo, the damages incurred are the denying of my rights under the law.


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## G8orDroid (Aug 12, 2011)

SonicJoe said:


> I don't see anything that prevents locking the bootloader in those regulations. It requires Verizon to not throttle bandwidth, and to not restrict services, but locking the bootloader has nothing to do with normal device functionality. Now, those who feel blocking certain applications (like Wifi Tether, EasyTether, etc.) are limiting functionality may have a case...


Exactly what about the locking the bootloader blocks illicit tethering? I haven't personally tried to tether with the bionic, but from what I have read, others have successfully been able to do it with both the internal app and third party ones. So far, I have seen no reports of people getting hit with tethering charges after these hacks. I do understand that modifying the kernel makes it an easier process though.

IMO, the locked bootloader on the Bionic has caused VZ and Moto more problems than it has prevented. I wonder how many phones have been bricked and returned that could have been easily fixed on an unlocked system. I personally do not see how locking the bootloader protects VZ's network. I think the network could be compromised just as easily on a rooted locked system as an unlocked one if someone took the initiative to write and disperse a "killer app". Besides VZ has the ability to kill to connection of any offending handset with a few keystrokes. To that point, if "Network Security" is the reason the Bionic and other Moto phones are locked, then why does VZ allow "ANY" manufacturer's unlocked handset on their network. If someone wants to file suit, I think that's the avenue that should be explored. I also think there should be some coordinated digital effort to "Occupy Motorola" to at least get a reasonable explanation as to why their phones have to be locked when other manufacturer's are not.


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## sk8 (Jul 16, 2011)

I believe the only customers who have a complaint are those individuals with devices operating on b block frequencies, this does not mean all 4G devices just some.

Sent from my HTC Mecha using Tapatalk


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## crashercarlton (Oct 29, 2011)

yeah no kidding you wanna know one good reason for our phones to have a locked bootloader...TO KEEP WARRANTY CLAIMS DOWN.....we all know from seeing these forums that a ton of people screw up their phones only to go and get a warranty replacement.....While i'd love to have an unlocked bootloader you can't blame them...


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## Nicelysedated (Dec 24, 2011)

crashercarlton said:


> yeah no kidding you wanna know one good reason for our phones to have a locked bootloader...TO KEEP WARRANTY CLAIMS DOWN.....we all know from seeing these forums that a ton of people screw up their phones only to go and get a warranty replacement.....While i'd love to have an unlocked bootloader you can't blame them...


Give us the means to fix them ourselves. Software can be reloaded. Hardware lock the CPU to prevent people from melting their handsets and free the software. To me it just feels like moto wants to be douches about it and are adopting Apples policies...


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## BootAnimator (Jun 10, 2011)

The easiest and stupidly obvious way to handle warranty claims is to make it when you unlock your phone, your ESN go on a Vzw /Moto database list that says you no longer have support. Its completely possible to do it and the best solution. 
BAM. Problem solved. Kinda hard to argue against how easy that would be. 
Usually the simplest answer is the right answer.


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## BootAnimator (Jun 10, 2011)

Nicelysedated said:


> To me it just feels like moto wants to be douches about it and are adopting Apples policies...


Heck, even Apple allows you to reload iOS onto your phone if something gets whacky.


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## casca (Oct 9, 2011)

G8orDroid said:


> Exactly what about the locking the bootloader blocks illicit tethering? I haven't personally tried to tether with the bionic, but from what I have read, others have successfully been able to do it with both the internal app and third party ones. So far, I have seen no reports of people getting hit with tethering charges after these hacks. I do understand that modifying the kernel makes it an easier process though.
> 
> IMO, the locked bootloader on the Bionic has caused VZ and Moto more problems than it has prevented. I wonder how many phones have been bricked and returned that could have been easily fixed on an unlocked system. I personally do not see how locking the bootloader protects VZ's network. I think the network could be compromised just as easily on a rooted locked system as an unlocked one if someone took the initiative to write and disperse a "killer app". Besides VZ has the ability to kill to connection of any offending handset with a few keystrokes. To that point, if "Network Security" is the reason the Bionic and other Moto phones are locked, then why does VZ allow "ANY" manufacturer's unlocked handset on their network. If someone wants to file suit, I think that's the avenue that should be explored. I also think there should be some coordinated digital effort to "Occupy Motorola" to at least get a reasonable explanation as to why their phones have to be locked when other manufacturer's are not.


There is no such thing as illicit tethering. If you pay for a data connection then you pay for the connection. What you do with it is your business and frankly I feel there is a privacy issue here as well. If they are monitoring a tether they are monitoring what you do with your data, it's non of their business. The fact is if you pay to rent a movie and you have 10 friends over or watch it yourself it is your business. This is the same thing really. How would you like SONY Entertainment coming to your house and asking for the redbox movie you just rented back because your daughter had her friend over and they only allow you to watch it with your Wife and kid?

Until consumers start demanding accountability and privacy from our law makers, corporate america will continue to conduct this type of invasive business practice.


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## rockstar323 (Sep 24, 2011)

I filed a complaint with the FCC about VZW locking the bootloader on Block C devices. After a month or 2 I got a response from VZW corporate saying that it's locked for security and network stability. Basically the same old song and dance they always use.


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## G8orDroid (Aug 12, 2011)

casca said:


> There is no such thing as illicit tethering. If you pay for a data connection then you pay for the connection. What you do with it is your business and frankly I feel there is a privacy issue here as well. If they are monitoring a tether they are monitoring what you do with your data, it's non of their business. The fact is if you pay to rent a movie and you have 10 friends over or watch it yourself it is your business. This is the same thing really. How would you like SONY Entertainment coming to your house and asking for the redbox movie you just rented back because your daughter had her friend over and they only allow you to watch it with your Wife and kid?
> 
> Until consumers start demanding accountability and privacy from our law makers, corporate america will continue to conduct this type of invasive business practice.


Per Merriam-Webster the definition of illicit is " *:* not permitted *:*unlawful ". So yes, there is illicit tethering going on. Whether you agree with it or not, VzW's user access policy clearly states that it is forbidden without a tethering plan. I personally agree with you that what you use the data you pay for is your business, but that doesn't change the facts. I don't really agree with your movie rental analogy, since one thing is a service and the other is a tangible item. Also, as far a privacy is concerned, I don't think VzW is "spying" on anyone. The built in hotspot tells them when you are tethering, if used as intended, and software can determine what type of browser is being used to access web pages from the packets sent.

I think tethering should be free up to the point you reach your allotted data cap. For those on "unlimited" plans, they could cap tethering at 5 gigabytes or so, or possibly throttle bandwidth after a certain limit. I understand the need for VzW to keep a handle on those that might abuse the system, but I believe most use it properly. But this is off topic so I'll shut up now.


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## G8orDroid (Aug 12, 2011)

rockstar323 said:


> I filed a complaint with the FCC about VZW locking the bootloader on Block C devices. After a month or 2 I got a response from VZW corporate saying that it's locked for security and network stability. Basically the same old song and dance they always use.


Is the Gnex a Block C device?


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## Nicelysedated (Dec 24, 2011)

rockstar323 said:


> I filed a complaint with the FCC about VZW locking the bootloader on Block C devices. After a month or 2 I got a response from VZW corporate saying that it's locked for security and network stability. Basically the same old song and dance they always use.


How is this even true if they release a number of handsets with unlocked bootloaders? The GNex isnt dangerous but the Bionic is?


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## rockstar323 (Sep 24, 2011)

G8orDroid said:


> How is this even true if they release a number of handsets with unlocked bootloaders? The GNex isnt dangerous but the Bionic is?


Not sure if the GNex uses the block C frequencies or not but my guess it does. I brought up the fact they would be releasing the Nexus but the response was "some" bootloaders need to be locked for security and network stability reasons. Like I said it's the same BS excuse they've always used "it's dangerous for our network and subscribers if all the phones have unlocked bootloaders we're just not going to say how". I may still have the letter, if I didn't throw it away I'll post a copy later.

Almost forgot, the phones on Verizon with unlocked bootloaders shipped with the bootloaders locked but they are unlockable. This is true even with the GNex it's just super easy to unlock. Ours are encrypted not just locked.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using RootzWiki


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## rockstar323 (Sep 24, 2011)

Moral of the story, we're screwed.

Verizon doesn't care what we want and won't unlock it.
The FCC won't do anything about because Verizon is doing it for "security". 
Moto says they want to but Verizon won't let them.[sup] [/sup]

The only way Verizon would listen is if they started losing mass amount of money over it and short of a mass exodus to other carriers, this is unlikely to happen. We can always try to file complaints with Lucas and try to get them to pull the Droid name from them saying that they are giving it a bad name.


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## gmpblack (Nov 11, 2011)

http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/29/htc-offers-unlocking-option-for-all-recent-android-phones/

Then why has HTC offered this option?


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## rockstar323 (Sep 24, 2011)

gmpblack said:


> http://www.bgr.com/2...android-phones/
> 
> Then why has HTC offered this option?


HTC has bigger balls than Motorola does or Motorola lied about Verizon forcing them to lock them..


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## Nicelysedated (Dec 24, 2011)

rockstar323 said:


> HTC has bigger balls than Motorola does or Motorola lied about Verizon forcing them to lock them..


Motorola is a liar is my guess. If ive read correctly, Motorola is the only one that uses military grade encryption on their boot loaders.


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## tdubs99 (Aug 24, 2011)

Nicelysedated said:


> Motorola is a liar is my guess. If ive read correctly, Motorola is the only one that uses military grade encryption on their boot loaders.


Couldn't the encryption just be broken and the bootloader unlocked that way? Someone should get on that......


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## Snow02 (Jun 14, 2011)

tdubs99 said:


> Couldn't the encryption just be broken and the bootloader unlocked that way? Someone should get on that......


You must be new here.

People have been looking into that since the X came out. It's not going to happen.


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## tdubs99 (Aug 24, 2011)

Snow02 said:


> You must be new here.
> 
> People have been looking into that since the X came out. It's not going to happen.


Come on I got an old 386 I could donate to the task......


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## Snow02 (Jun 14, 2011)

tdubs99 said:


> Come on I got an old 386 I could donate to the task......


Heh. An abacus and slide rule might be just as effective, unfortunately.


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## tdubs99 (Aug 24, 2011)

Snow02 said:


> Heh. An abacus and slide rule might be just as effective, unfortunately.


Haha, now thats funny. I wonder what the timeframe of that would be.....


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## bdsullivan (Jun 25, 2011)

I am finding it harder to believe that its a vz thing. Htc seems to be unlocking their bootloaders on a daily basis now. The rezound, inc2 just got officially unlocked. It now comes down to moto. If htc and samsung can do it why cant moto. I love my bionic but it is a pain in the tushy to recover is it gets borked. If the bootloader was unlocked we could easily reflash whatever image we needed to recover and save vz, moto and ourselves alot of time and money.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## bigmook (Jun 6, 2011)

I am almost sure it won't be unlocked. Wasn't on the x and won't be in the future. Imho

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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