# Swap Kernel



## thebust (Aug 27, 2011)

could it be made for the droid x? i see it on all these other lesser devices and am kinda missing my true linux experience.
personally think our DX's could benefit from this feature.

anyone willing to make a kernel if it is possible? jakebites


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## nhugh406 (Aug 2, 2011)

thebust said:


> could it be made for the droid x? i see it on all these other lesser devices and am kinda missing my true linux experience.
> personally think our DX's could benefit from this feature.
> 
> anyone willing to make a kernel if it is possible? jakebites


Locked bootloader makes it kind if difficult

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Burncycle (Aug 6, 2011)

thebust said:


> could it be made for the droid x? i see it on all these other lesser devices and am kinda missing my true linux experience.
> personally think our DX's could benefit from this feature.
> 
> anyone willing to make a kernel if it is possible? jakebites


Droid x bootloader is locked. No kernel other than the official if that is what you mean.


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## thebust (Aug 27, 2011)

hope either the bootloader gets unlocked (unlikely) or someone creates a workaround.

ugh motorola


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## Jack902902 (Oct 4, 2011)

Wouldn't 2nd-unit be considered a work around?


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## bobAbooey (Jun 15, 2011)

Bootloader is locked, no way to get around that for kernals without it being unlocked.


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## Burncycle (Aug 6, 2011)

Jack902902 said:


> Wouldn't 2nd-unit be considered a work around?


Well, yes it is a work around for the locked bootloader, but not for the kernel exactly. 2nd-init basically allows us to load up whatever we want on top of the stock kernel. It has definitely made progress since it first started. It is still a hassle though because it could make things so much easier if the kernel could be made to fit the rom, and not the other way around.


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## phishfi (Jul 24, 2011)

Jack902902 said:


> Wouldn't 2nd-unit be considered a work around?


When your phone boots the first thing that turns on is the kernel. The bootloader keeps the kernel from being modified, and init is the first thing the kernel runs. What 2nd init does is replace itself in the original init every time your phone boots. It's really complex and doesn't allow for an actual modification to the kernel.

If Googorola would fix this we would see a insanely long life for the DX. But it's pretty unlikely.


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## cubsfan187 (Jul 17, 2011)

I really think the X is at the end of its run. Verizon screwed us with telling moto to lock the bootloader. I don't see them unlocking it ever. As far as they're concerned, it was a successful idea. I wish as much as anyone that it was possible to swap kernels like most other phones. But the great devs the x have found a way to keep us with great roms for a long time.


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## thebust (Aug 27, 2011)

Definitely have no complaints about the roms developed for this phone, guess I was naive to think Verizon might listen to their customers requests. Thanks guys for the answers.

PS. Now seeing these dumb Droid razr commercials where some magical disc is cutting through the city, wreaking havoc on city people. What a marketing joke..


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## SaurusX (Jun 15, 2011)

The argument that Verizon is forcing Motorola to lock the bootloader as a means of getting people to upgrade is intriguing. Verizon's going to be subsidizing the purchases of new phones for a lot of people who are coming up on their upgrade. On one hand they shell out a lot of money for new phones, but on the other they lock people in for another two years. Dollar-wise, it must be worth the trade off or else Verizon wouldn't do it.


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## phishfi (Jul 24, 2011)

SaurusX said:


> The argument that Verizon is forcing Motorola to lock the bootloader as a means of getting people to upgrade is intriguing. Verizon's going to be subsidizing the purchases of new phones for a lot of people who are coming up on their upgrade. On one hand they shell out a lot of money for new phones, but on the other they lock people in for another two years. Dollar-wise, it must be worth the trade off or else Verizon wouldn't do it.


This is a good point. I'm sure that HTC caught a lot of flak from the service providers for putting their foot down and saying that they aren't going to lock their bootloaders. I completely agree with what you're saying, if the bootloaders weren't locked people wouldn't be upgrading their devices for a very long time. Like the Droid OG that never seems to die...


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## sgtguthrie (Jun 7, 2011)

phishfi said:


> This is a good point. I'm sure that HTC caught a lot of flak from the service providers for putting their foot down and saying that they aren't going to lock their bootloaders. I completely agree with what you're saying, if the bootloaders weren't locked people wouldn't be upgrading their devices for a very long time. Like the Droid OG that never seems to die...


HTC isn't putting their foot down at all actually. The rezound is locked and won't be unlockable via htcdev like phones on other networks. They just promised something they weren't willing to follow through with. It's a shame, as they've lost my future business as a result. Sammy, here I come at upgrade time! Unless someone else makes a NEXUS at that point ;-)

sent via rooted THUNDERBOLT with Tapatalk


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## phishfi (Jul 24, 2011)

sgtguthrie said:


> HTC isn't putting their foot down at all actually. The rezound is locked and won't be unlockable via htcdev like phones on other networks. They just promised something they weren't willing to follow through with. It's a shame, as they've lost my future business as a result. Sammy, here I come at upgrade time! Unless someone else makes a NEXUS at that point ;-)
> 
> sent via rooted THUNDERBOLT with Tapatalk


Oh wow, I didn't realize they lied about their promise. I guess I will end up sticking with Motorola. My problem with Samsung is that they just don't feel right to me. Thanks for the info, I guess when I'm up for my next device, we'll see what happens. I definitely will not get a locked bootloader phone anymore, so maybe it will be Samsung once I'm up for the next one.


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## luigi90210 (Sep 5, 2011)

phishfi said:


> This is a good point. I'm sure that HTC caught a lot of flak from the service providers for putting their foot down and saying that they aren't going to lock their bootloaders. I completely agree with what you're saying, if the bootloaders weren't locked people wouldn't be upgrading their devices for a very long time. Like the Droid OG that never seems to die...


every new phone on verizon has a locked bootloader including samsung(even the galaxy nexus), they are just not encrypted like motorola's botloaders are


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## Infazzdar (Jun 21, 2011)

cubsfan187 said:


> I really think the X is at the end of its run. Verizon screwed us with telling moto to lock the bootloader. I don't see them unlocking it ever. As far as they're concerned, it was a successful idea. I wish as much as anyone that it was possible to swap kernels like most other phones. But the great devs the x have found a way to keep us with great roms for a long time.


As far as the Droid X being at the end of its run, we've reached. Our Verizon end of life, but with the great developers and community behind the X, I believe we have a long way to go.


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## blackadept (Jun 13, 2011)

The issue is Motorola just as much as it is Verizon. Motorola has an extremely entrenched spot in industrial tech, more so then the other biggins (yes Samsung does too but not as much). As such one thing they have always lauded was their security. Their refusal to unlock their bootloader is mostly due to this IMHO. Even their press releases regarding the issue state said fact, both directly and indirectly (as in the VP responding to her meeting the person involved in freemymotobootloader.com or whatever, in which she quips that she finds it ironic how their prized security is uncrackable and has caused this movement).

There is something to be said in their defense when this view point is taken. Perhaps the same technology and encryption scheme used for the bootloaders is similar to that of their industrial technology or akin enough that it would open it up enough to cause the security to be weakened. That said, there has been one Motorola that has been unlocked, however it was unlocked due to the sharing of technology of said phone's international version with its domestic kin. This does suggest that bootloaders are not created equal, which would counter the previous statement, however I do not know if the unlocked phone carried the e-fuse that Motorola uses. Point is we don't really know, if we did it would be unlocked. I really do think this is partly due to security concerns on their industrial front as well as due to pride and yes, Verizon is partly to blame as well (which I'll spare the wall of text as I explained my take on Verizon's locking spree in a previous post).

They did make promises to unlock the bootloader, but in the end, well, Motorola is a company ... and guess what companies lie left and right. Those statements were made at the wake of the HTC debacle and during the build up of hype for the bionic. The difference is that Motorola has shown a propensity for lieing and complete and total apathy towards their customers. We're the fat kid waiting to be picked for dodge ball only to be picked last in their eyes. They have 0 respect for us and use the promise of an unlocked bootloader for phones as a marketing tool. If they ever will actually follow thru with their promises is ultimately only known to them, if they do I guarantee they will use it brag they did it because they looooove us o so much, when in reality is due to the fact that the majority of the android community is starting to veer into the anti-Motorola crowd. I love my X, its a great phone, however I will never buy another Motorola phone in the future due to how they have handled this. Unfortunately, the dev community is very small compared to the entire android community as a whole, and that majority doesn't even know rooting or a bootloader is.

Then again that's just my opinion and I'm sure many will disagree but I figured I'd toss my two cents in.


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## Jubakuba (Sep 8, 2011)

blackadept said:


> Unfortunately, the dev community is very small compared to the entire android community as a whole, and that majority doesn't even know rooting or a bootloader is.


This is what bugs me the most about this whole debacle.
You're right, and it brings up a point that I think Verizon/Moto either fail to realize...or are just THAT greedy.
(And stupid)

Probably %90 of android users either don't have/acknowledge root access.
These users are who Verizon/Moto should be concerned about...and who they primarily supply to.
Now, these users, being "regular" users...probably don't know what dual-core is. They probably don't even know that their phones have a 1ghz processor...512mb of ram...or whatever. They'll buy a new phone when theirs breaks...or when something looks "cool" to them and their warranty is up.

Another %5 maybe root for the sake of using titanium backup...an angry birds cheating engine...or similar applications.
^As such, these %5 are of disinterest to Verizon/Moto unless they are tethering (Verizon's interest) or "Bricking" their phones by being noobz...and sending in for replacements.
Again, these "bricked" users are only causing harm if they aren't found to have tampered with their phones software...I think Verizon/Moto/GeekSquad/Whoever need to do more extensive testing so they can DENY warranty claims to users who caused the damage themselves.
And Ta-da...instant profit. User breaks phone...root exploits found...insurance claim denied...user buys new phone (or potentially musters up the energy to find out how to fix it themselves...and again, all is well.)

And then there are the remaining %5 (probably less) who run custom roms.
We are the android enthusiasts. We care about technical specifications. I swear up and down about my locked bootloader...and how my next phone is going to be THE phone for me. And I'm serious about that. I had my money ready for the Bionic with the hopes that it would be unlocked. No? Oh, I'll keep my X. Razr? No? Oh, I'll keep my X. Galaxy Nexus? Wow, this is a depressing decision...but I'm getting so close to quad core at this point...that I'm actually going to end up waiting for those to pop up. Keep in mind, that I would have bought the Bionic ON CONTRACT for full retail if this was done right.
What does that mean? A FASTER turn-around for a new phone buyer. Not a slower one. If Moto's phones were to be unlocked out of the box...we wouldn't have to wait for this endless fight on an unlocked bootloader.

Oh, well what about when this MINIMAL %5 finally gets their unlocked dream-phone...won't they stick with that for an eternity?
If we cycle unlocked/locked (as has, kind of, been the case [OGDroid / The X generation (X, X2, D2, Bionic, etc) / Galaxy Nexus]) we see a pattern of users stuck on their phones waiting for that unlock.
Keep the phones unlocked, and normality will return on phone buyers.
*As many of you probably haven't realized, the people who still use OG's argue that they want another stock/unlocked experience. They waited for unlocked...not BECAUSE they were unlocked.*

As a small side-point...
Verizon/Moto also potentially make money from all of that bloat that was on the phone stock.
Um...correct me if I'm wrong...but the X took a bit for that to disappear. The locked bootloader and lack of an SBF file had devs being super cautions...
But we still removed those within what...a couple months? And the common user who isn't rooted did what with those? Did they actually use them (lol)?
If they did...then congratulations. You've reached your demographic. Let the root users (who know that your bloatware is not only useless and buggy but simply ascetically ugly) decide what they want to do with your crapware.
And we have.
And we will continue to do so.

It isn't like a super user picks up a new locked smartphone and says "Oh...it comes with CityID...and has a locked bootloader...and I can't remove this application right now...might as well pay $10 a month for the service."
No. We aren't stupid. We install launcher pro...hide the icon...and wait for our devs to rescue us.

Verizon/Moto are doing nothing to help themselves. They are ONLY pissing off their %5 of (once) devoted customers.


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## TwinShadow (Oct 17, 2011)

To save on a big quote box, I can't pick out anything I don't agree with in Jubakuba's post. I've been around the tech business since I was a kid, so I know my way around system specs and all that. But, as pointed out, its only a tiny portion of the entire Android community who know exactly what they're doing with these devices. Because of that, Verizon and Motorola usually will not care about us tech savvy people. They want to stick to their biggest buyers, that's where they get most of the money from. Losing 5%-10% of their customers won't hurt their profits too much.


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## luigi90210 (Sep 5, 2011)

blackadept said:


> To save on a big quote box, I can't pick out anything I don't agree with in Jubakuba's post. I've been around the tech business since I was a kid, so I know my way around system specs and all that. But, as pointed out, its only a tiny portion of the entire Android community who know exactly what they're doing with these devices. Because of that, Verizon and Motorola usually will not care about us tech savvy people. They want to stick to their biggest buyers, that's where they get most of the money from. Losing 5%-10% of their customers won't hurt their profits too much.


again root community is bigger than people think(a lot of it is so that get free tethering and such but thats not the point)


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## phishfi (Jul 24, 2011)

luigi90210 said:


> every new phone on verizon has a locked bootloader including samsung(even the galaxy nexus), they are just not encrypted like motorola's botloaders are


I, honestly, don't mind having a bootloader as long as I can disable the damn thing. My Xoom works like a champ, and I like being able to do anything and everything with it, once I run "fastboot oem unlock". The only complaint I have there is that I can't find any SBF downloads for the Xoom Wifi version.


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## Goose306 (Sep 12, 2011)

I don't find the root community to be too large. At my job, I work with 400+ people. Of the ones I know, probably about 20 of them have androids. Not a single one other than me has a rooted phone. In fact, when I'm just casually using my phone at work (web browsing, what have you) and people glance at it, it invariably gets a "Whoa, what is *that?*" type of response when they see my MIUI. Between them and my various friends I probably know of 40-50 people who have androids, and I can think of 2 others who have root access and they just use it to remove bloat and Titanium Backup. More importantly, those 2 were not aware of rooting even prior to me demonstrating what I did on my phone. So at least by my experience, the root community and ROM community is by far and away a small portion of the overall android community.


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## kwest12 (Jul 15, 2011)

Unfortunately the fact that so many ppl _don't_ know about rooting/bloat removal/romming/overclocking/etc is probably one of the big reasons I hear so many friends rant about how much they hate their Android device. Guess where they go....







Unfortunately, as you guys have stated, those ppl that are being alienated by their Androids are actually the target market.

Hopefully with ICS we'll start to see a shift in Android: with any luck it'll become far more non-poweruser-friendly without any modifications. Too bad Google doesn't just hire a slew of Android hackers/modders as consultants.


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## ryan (Jun 7, 2011)

It still might be possible with kexec, although the current limitation is that the baseband/radio does re-initialize, which means no calls/text/data etc... Still, if someone were able to find out a way it's possible.


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